How Forrest Webber Grew to $40k Per Month After Replacing Rental Properties With Websites
Want to take your digital assets to the next level?
It’s pretty tough without a team and systems in place.
And that’s why today’s podcast episode is such a potential goldmine for site owners hoping to scale.
Forrest Webber got into the online world with minimal experience with online businesses.
But he used his talents in leadership to grow a team and portfolio of 20 websites that now generates up to $40,000 in revenue per month.
And his approach to growing online businesses is one that will surely interest a lot of listeners.
He shares great tips on:
- Finding the right people to delegate important work
- How to effectively lead people
- Website KPIs
- And more…
So if you’d like some advice on how to treat your websites like a scalable business, check it out!
Topics Forrest Webber Covers
- How he pivoted from real estate to websites
- Similarities and differences between real estate and digital assets
- How much gets published across his portfolio
- Succeeding with an investors mindset
- The unique way he’s building his SEO company
- Lots of great book recommendations
- How he’s scaled his portfolio
- Acquiring an eCommerce site vs content site
- Management strategies
- Full-time vs contract writers
- Importance of being diversified
- The network effect
- Tips for ambitious site owners
- And a whole lot more…
Links & Resources
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Watch The Interview
Read The Transcription
Jared: Welcome back to the Niche Pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bauman, and today we’re joined by Forrest Webber with digitail.co, which is a SEO agency for blogs. Welcome Forrest
Forrest: Thank you. Thanks so much, Jared.
Jared: Yeah, I was, we were talking at the outset about how this has been a long time coming.
We’ve been working on this interview and getting it, getting it here for several months now. I’m really excited for what we’re gonna go through. You you have multiple things you’re involved with. You run an agency for bloggers. You also build websites on your own. Why don’t you get us started? Give us some background.
Tell us about the evolution of
Forrest: all this. Yeah, thanks for your patience. I had a injury for a couple of weeks, but we’re back now. We’re back. Yeah, so I started the website I think about five years ago, but it started for me when I was in college. I learned a little bit about how you could make money blogging and so I started one minute money.com, which was a total waste of time because I dumped it after 30 days because it didn’t take off like it should, right?
But I moved into finance and real estate, so undergrad and finance grad school was real estate and all of my co students went off to work in big cities. But I was in what Forbes considered the most undervalued real estate in the nation town, which is College Station, Texas, GIGO, Maggies, woo.
Jared: Hey, you’re even an egg can tell what.
Forrest: Colors on us, right? . So there was a local broker who wanted to move into student housing development, which is exactly what I wanted to do. I kind of had the privilege of discovering really early that I love to learn, but I don’t love to work. So I knew by 30 I wanted to be retired. So I got into real estate and just wanted to find what is the quickest way to own the most rental properties you can.
So we did that together for two and a half years. I think I raised $3.5 million of private equity capital, and that gave me partnership interests and some student housing apartments. So the reason why this is important, It taught me how to create a business with the operations segmented from the actual growth work.
And I wanted to do the same thing on the website space. And fortunately the market kind of took off in college station. So when we sold the apartments, I cashed out, you know, close to a million dollars of cash, paid a bunch of taxes, , and then a one quick side note. But I got to bring that capital in to the website space with me.
Hmm. So it’s given me a huge accelerator and allowed me to skip some of the early technical stages that other people work through slowly, and that works out with pros and cons. But the quick side note, so 2015, I just closed out most of the real estate stuff I’d worked on, and my first daughter was born a little over three months early.
Hmm. While I was displaced in Seattle with my ex-wife. And that kind of brought everything home for me because, you know, there’s a lot of people that wanna work in the digital nomad community, but having to work from a hospital for 108 days really shows you what a privilege it is to get to do it. So that’s just a little side note from mm-hmm.
my background, so then I’ll move on real quick. I took that capital, came into the website space, started investigating brokers. I really didn’t know that there were online assets that could be treated just like rental properties. And that’s what I did before. But once it hit me that you could purchase.
Assets for two to three PE ratios like price to earnings ratios on historical documented earnings. And you know, I’d seen proforma income statements in the commercial real estate world for years and nobody’s truthful on ’em. And in the website space you almost have to be, cuz there’s so much publicly available data.
So when I started looking at that as a asset class, it really drew me in and I had huge visions of going all the way through this thing with just private equity groups and that kind of thing. And it turns out you can kind of do it just as a solopreneur and I prefer that. So that’s what I’ve done.
Jared: So I, I just wanna bend your ear a bit on it before we get into the, the details of the interview, because, you know, when I explain what website building is to like a, somebody outside this community, I oftentimes will use real estate as an analogy, you know, and I’m like, it’s just kind of like real estate, but in a digital world.
And usually the light bulb kind of goes off for people. How accurate is that? Is that analogy that I give? And so many of us give, like, you’ve been heavily involved now in both real estate from a investment standpoint and now websites and, and we’ll call it from an investment standpoint, like how much similarity is there between the two?
Forrest: I think it’s a great analogy. I mean, it’s easier to think of something physical, so oftentimes, You know, link building is a practice that a lot of people stay arms length from, and I try to explain link building as building those infrastructural components like roads or sewage or water to your property.
And I think it works great. Yeah.
Jared: Yeah. It’s, it’s so true. It’s, so, I I, I, I want to hear about the operational things you’ve brought over from, from managing real estate projects, but we’ll, we’ll get into that. So, let’s see. That was, I mean, several years ago at this point that you made the transition. Yeah.
Maybe talk to us, actually give us a snapshot of where you’re at today with your websites, and then also let us know when you started your SEO agency as well.
Forrest: Okay. Awesome. Yeah, let me pull up this data. So I have a portfolio of about 20 websites. That we’ve published as of a couple weeks ago before I got that black eye that prevented the former interview, Jared , we had published 13,298,000 words across these 20 blogs.
That’s about 8,000 articles with an average monthly word count on these 20 blogs between 9,000 a month and 30,000 words per month. Average article link is 2112, but that also varies depending on the blog too. And I have, let’s see here. Yeah, that’s, that’s the figures here. So that’s the portfolio. Most of these were acquired, but, but in the last year or two, we’ve been building from scratch, so some of ’em are newer.
Jared: Okay. Okay. So pretty good size portfolio. I mean, that’s enough to manage, you’re publishing that many words per month. That’s a good, that’s a good operational challenge to take on . Yeah.
Forrest: Yeah, and to be honest, I mean, I’m not the expert at operations. I’ve always looked to, you know, hire someone that I can, I can grow alongside and, and grow in the knowledge side, but just direct.
And so the biggest victory for me so far has been hiring a, a really great director. Really?
Jared: Yeah. Yeah. So you have somebody in place that basically directs the operations when it comes to all 20 of these websites? Yes. What is your role then on the, on the site? ?
Forrest: So my role now, Essentially is, is to be like an investor, kind of like he pointed out earlier.
And I think to a degree that is one clarification. I am probably more of an investor in business-minded individual than someone who’s great at understanding off page technical SEO and that kind of thing.
Jared: Yeah, yeah. Like what kind of revenue or or profit numbers are you comfortable sharing with? Yeah, I can share that portfolio of 20.
Yeah, there’s, I mean, it’s a good number of sites.
Forrest: Yeah. Obviously it depends on if it’s quarter four or quarter one . Right. But we we average about 30,000 a month and display ad revenue between media, vine, and Zoic. That’s been as high as 40. You know, it’s in, in quarter one. The year before last, it was down to like 16,500, but that’s kind of our range.
And then we make around five to 12,000 a month from Amazon. and we have a few other affiliate programs we’re a part of, but we’ve never invested a ton of time into managing the affiliate commissions, the conversion rates. We just signed up for Aate with Monica Lint and she showed us how her platform works and we’re really excited to do that now.
Jared: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had her on, oh, I don’t know how far back now, maybe nine months ago, but she is great. She had some great tips to share.
Forrest: Her software’s so powerful and it’s just, it’s beautifully designed too. Have you looked at it?
Jared: I poked around and thought, oh, man, I should really do something with this and then haven’t done anything
Yeah, she, you can go through, I mean, dozens of iterations for a, a page revision based on the data and just review. You can look at all the data for what changed between last month and this month, and it. Wow.
Jared: I will have to check that out again. I’ll have to check that out. So, okay. So before we dive in, when did the SEO agency come into play and why?
If you have this beast of a operational Yeah. 20 websites to manage it and to run and to grow. Yeah. Even if you’re not doing the operations, what’s the need? And when did the Seo o Agency come into play?
Forrest: Yeah, great question. And it’s, it’s kind of personal for me because, you know, when I mentioned that at age 20, I knew I wanted to, you know, retire early and kind of get out of work.
There’s actually a couple books that inspire me. One’s called Work Less, live More by Rio Robert, client Work Less, live More. It’s about semi-retirement and then how to Retire Happy Walden Free by Ernie Zelensky. And I think I have kind of an old soul, so I, I just wanted to retire, enjoy Slow Life, you know, and that first company in the real estate industry.
We built a self-serving entity. The management that we took on that was third party was just to help us pay bills. This time I kind of did it in reverse. I wanted to build the operational team first, make sure we had services that could be relied on first off. But then it’s, it’s that shift from, you know, I’m not midlife yet, but the, the crisis of my daughter being born early really shifted me from pursuing my personal happiness at cost of all other things to a meaningful life.
There’s another book, I love books. My first acquisition is hooked to books.com. There’s a book called Swamp Lens of the. From Misery to Meaning at midlife and it’s by a union psychologist. And basically I just wanted to build something that could serve other bloggers. So the agency came about a little over a year ago.
Okay. And it’s, it’s like Rent My team. This is the team that built the portfolio that keeps operating it today. Just used the same resources.
Jared: That’s awesome. There are so many similarities in crossover. I mean, I have an agency myself, . Yeah. Yeah. We do a lot of SEO work and we do website building as well.
When we got started, we kind of flipped the model a bit in reverse order of what you did. We started the agency and then realized, You know, we got all these people that are working on websites and really good at it and some months as an agency you’re slower in certain areas. Why not put that time and that effort towards our own website and our own portfolio?
So I understand what you’re talking about. We just did it in reverse order. .
Forrest: Yeah, exactly. I think both ways work. You know, we did that in the real estate side. We started up front with third party and then moved to self-serving. Eventually fired all the clients cuz we didn’t like client work. Well, you know, for me, since I’m not the one at the helm of the operations, like director wise, I can’t exactly brag that I’m just so servant hearted and just want to talk to clients about problems all day long.
That’s not the case. But I do think the fact that my partner is located in the East, I think that if it’s, if it’s his own family or if it’s his. He has the most incredible service leadership at, at everything he does. And it’s not, it’s, it’s just obvious. He does it because he cares and it’s really special.
So we wanted to open that up to more people. And, yeah, just really quick, I noticed you, you put a tweet out or something saying you were looking for an acquisition, your agency, and I was like, that’s so cool, man, that y’all are bringing in assets while you do work for others too. So I appreciate
Jared: that. Yeah, that’s great.
That’s great. Yeah. Well, we’ll see if definitely got some people interested, but it’s a, you know, it’s, it’s a good model. I, and I never have made the connection like you just did between property management in a real estate world versus managing on your own. So that is so cool. I think there’s a lot of people out that out here that are listening that I’ve interacted with over the years that have messaged me and talked about how.
You know, we, we talk on the podcast about whether to start building your own websites outta the gate. Go maybe work for an agency and cut your teeth, right? Or once you have that experience, maybe serve clients while building your websites to help with cash flow. So it’s, it’s really good to just talk through how, you know, another example of someone who is building websites, but also using the same processes and the same operational strengths to also serve clients.
It’s just, it’s cool. It gives people a lot of, you know, inspiration or at least thoughts to think about and consider .
Forrest: Totally. Yeah. Have you ever heard the quote, never lift a hammer? No, I have not. If you picture like a construction site in real estate, if you’re general contracting and you walk up on site and there’s problems going on and you take over the process forever, they’ll look to you for it.
So for good or for bad, I’ve always employed that strategy. Never lift a hammer. Always work on. You know, what is the problem and how can I empower this person? You know this stuff, but there’s a a Harvard Business Review book called On Managing Yourself, and there’s a chapter called Who’s Got the Management Monkey, and it’s about how you can either give all your time away as the leader and manager, or you can confine those spaces.
And always make clear who’s back the monkey is on. So that’s how I try to handle operations is let someone else do them, but step in, you know, step into the office, analyze the problem, walk through it with them.
Jared: Yeah. Well, you’ve scaled nicely. You’ve scaled nicely. Let’s transition and talk about how you scaled.
I wanna hear more details about it because, you know, we, we kind of left with you having this idea that you wanted to move into the website building world, and then we kind of arrived really quickly at the fact that 20 sites into millions and millions of words, . Now you did tease, you had some capital that you were able to go in with.
Talk us through, just from a very high level, the approach you took to getting in this world. And I’m a, I’m particularly interested in how you learned SEO o coming from a background that didn’t really have any of that in the real estate world.
Forrest: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s a great question cuz it’s gonna point out so many flaws and mistakes and learning lessons that I made.
So the first acquisition I made was a $17,000 Empire Flippers website, September, 2017,
Jared: back when they were still selling sites that low.
Forrest: Yeah. Back when they would sell something at that price level and it was like $575 a month of revenue. And I was a spreadsheet guy from real estate and thought the management would be comparable.
It turns out it’s a lot more active and a lot more intensive. Requires way more knowledge than real estate management in certain ways. And I had a friend that was just a super. Ambitious individual and we decided, hey, you can just, you can just manage it. You can do everything. You’ll produce the words, do the link building, you’re the whole team.
And as it grows, you’ll get a split of the equity. Well, two months in and maybe four articles in, you know, he’s like, Hey, this is not really gonna work for me cuz I have a full-time job and my cuts $6 and 47 cents from last month. You know, and we we had to move toward, okay, well then we need to make a couple more acquisitions.
So I then made $109,000 acquisition on a website that was on the uptrend. And it had about 4,400 a month in Amazon affiliate commissions, but no display ads. And the next acquisition was about two weeks later. It was 127,000, plus 9,000 in accounts receivable. And so that jumped me up to above 10,000 a month in revenue.
So you are right there is kind of a fast four button for me. You know, I went from zero to 12, 500 in revenue in like two months. So then we started hiring just like anyone would that wants to build an internal team. We, we did five and Upwork and did quizzes and tests and interviews and I was just learning on page SEO at the time.
So I would edit the articles or have the other manager guy, he just, he kind of begun realizing he needed to pursue other opportunities at that point. So I would go in and edit the articles and publish ’em and it’s the slow learning curve of, of basic SEO upfront for me. So that went on for a few months and then I wanted to scale more content, so I hired content refined cuz John Gillum was a big inspiration for me early on too.
He’s the founder of Authority website Income. Motion Invest. He’s a co-founder of, he now has originality ai, which is brand new. Mm-hmm. . And I’m, I’m super interested to hear what you think about some of the new news, Jared, at some point too, but back to the question. Mm-hmm. scaling for me, the first six months was a really fast job cuz I had to outsource content links really quick.
Jared: The, I’m just trying to put myself in your shoes, owning, you know, several hundred thousand dollars worth of website. And, you know, probably not really knowing a lot about seo, admitting that, oh man, a website’s a little bit of a different beast than a than a duplex or, yeah, sure. You know, like when the water breaks you call a plumber, but boy, when the, when the website, it gets hit by an algorithm, you know, it’s like, who do you call, kind of thing.
So what, like maybe just for someone who, whether they’re in the same shoes or they’re struggling to fast track themselves to learn how to manage a website, and I know the route you took was maybe different than a lot of people, a lot of people would’ve put their head down and just learned s e o and you, you sought out to actually hire people to put in place there.
But how did you, how were you able to do that without sinking the ship with actually a, a growth mindset in
Forrest: mind? It was even scarier than I’ve let on actually, after that third acquisition. I, I had not decided yet to only pursue content sites, so SEO is important to me, but really at that point I was, I was as basic as thinking, I wanna buy websites that make money.
So Empire Flippers had a listing for 294,000. There was a a women’s online, primarily Instagram run, e-commerce boutique, and I decided to buy it. Hmm.
Jared: Good fit. Yeah. So, I mean, I don’t know much about you, but probably a little bit difficult to slide yourself right into the content production there. I
Forrest: hired a marketing agency out of Austin, and they had a retainer that was like half the revenue.
The revenue was 10,500 a month at the time. And when I bought it, it was kind of on an upswing, just the short story, two weeks in. You know, I’m, I’m thinking what have I gotten myself into? Daily sales, I think had dropped from 1500 to about $75 a day. Oh boy. And I’m going, oh my gosh, this is a nightmare. I had, I still had a couple properties left from real estate, two duplexes near campus, so I sold one of them and cashed out like another 200,000 from that just to kind of cover my losses.
I fired that first agency. He was a close friend of mine. It was hard to do. And then I hired another agency and they were digging so deep into it, they started to think, Like maybe you got scammed. So I had to have a, a call with money Joe, the c e o of Empire Flippers just to go over it. So it was scary.
I mean, the, the short end of it is that it wasn’t, it wasn’t easy or fun and I doubted everything for like six months. We put five to six months of losses on the operational side in for that e-commerce boutique. And that’s when I started looking at the other blogs I had that were getting no attention and they’re still growing or holding steady and their rankings are being consistent.
And I’m like, okay, well then maybe I just need to do content site portfolios. And that’s how the transition happened
Jared: for me. Interesting. Wow. That would be, that’d be very frightened. Where, where did that site, where’d that poor e-comm site end up? The capital loss on the taxes? a write off, you call it?
Yeah, just a write off. You know, I, I mean, it’s interesting to talk to you about because it does, there are so many parallels in real estate to website building, but, but I, but you’re very right, as someone who has some investment properties as well, the management of a website versus the management of properties are so vastly different because in real estate buying and identifying the property is really the, the secret.
And then running it, you can really get, there’s already well-built teams of people that if you want, you can get to help run, you know, an investment property, but much different in terms of the website space. That’s a, that’s a really interesting kind of coming to know that you had to go through the hard way.
Well, okay, so how’d this whole thing round out? I mean, I’m curious where you turned the corner on, on these websites and when things started getting profitable and what started making your operations profitable?
Forrest: Yeah, so I mean, after that big flop, I decided to not buy more e-commerce sites. I’ve always still had.
A lingering interest in having a product that was scalable from a, you know, lifetime value of a customer calculation angle. To be able to determine like what’s the acquisition cost of a customer, what’s their lifetime value, and then to have that paid ad spend, like gas pedal you can just hit, which feels like you can print money.
But after the e-commerce website flopped, I didn’t even try anything in that realm for about a year and I spent all of my time then regrouping, kind of reforming the business plan. I had that manager who we had structured some deals together for his compensation and because of that big e-commerce flop, I think he was, Just starting to question things.
So we had a conversation, decided to part ways and I looked for a new director at that point. And when I found this director, I looked for actual background and marketing experience, someone who’d worked for a blog before. And so I found someone through some friends that run like a 2 million page view per month publication style website, really high editorial standards.
And so we started attacking it from that angle, like let’s have the best publishing standards out there. Really a content high end. And she was a great director for me for the time. She worked for me for about two years and we built a team of say, 10, mostly administrative VAs. And then we outsourced writing to either contract writers or to agencies.
And then we would edit them, publish ’em. Do our own interlinking, she and I, and that worked really well for us. It’s just kind of like the average team you would think of if someone has three or four or five websites and have maybe a partner plus a few contractors that write on the team. And we did that for a couple years and then she decided to go back to grad school and pursue something else that she was more passionate about.
And it worked well for us because I had just acquired a website from a gentleman by the name of Mohammed Kaiser, and he is a, he has a background in link building. He’s run an SEO agency for about 10 years and used to manage a staff of 185 and wow the uae so, You know, genuine managerial, operational background, leadership skills, very professional.
I noticed his professionalism and communication really early on in the transaction. And after he sold me the site, I said, would you like to work, you know, part-time on contract for me helping me run half of these sites? And he did. And he was unbelievable. I mean, our, our standards went up on every K P I we had.
So I hired him full-time and he’s the. .
Jared: Wow. And so today you’re running 20 sites and you know, publishing odd lot of content. Maybe give us, give us some insights that you’ve learned in the journey. And again, I’m thinking about that person who wants to start to remove themselves from some of the day-to-day, wants to bring on a team or has a team at this point.
Yes. And knows that they need to make some iterations and some changes.
Forrest: Absolutely. Great question too. So I, whenever I think about scaling with, with people like managerial scaling, there’s a couple of books I mentioned I wanna mention again, on Managing Yourself. The Harvard Business Review book. That one’s really great.
There’s a book called the ETH Revisited. Yep. By Michael Gerber. I really appreciate that one. He breaks down three personalities inside every business person. Three business personalities, the technician, the manager, and the entrepreneur, and the technicians. The one handling the technical details of the work.
Maybe it’s the writer writing and performing on page seo. The manager’s the one measuring the results. I think forget the, the quote author of this one, but it says what’s measured and proves. You might know that one. What’s measured and proves. So I, when I started working on a managerial aspects of my business, I had two major reports that are due every month.
So one of them is the KPI report, key Performance Indicators. So we’ll look. How did our published articles do? How are our rankings doing on each blog top to bottom? But in the beginning it was also just how many articles were published at all. Like, did we get the number of articles we wanted to get done this month?
Done? And it wasn’t always easy to do that. Mm-hmm. . So a K P I report every month. And then I have another process that a consultant taught me called Start, stop, continue. Because for me, I mean, one of the things I love about the website space is that there’s an infinite amount of things to learn. And I considered that an advantage.
I thought I, I mean now I’ve learned over time I’m not nearly as smart as I thought I was compared to others. You know, I, I think when I first thought about the website space as an investment, I thought, oh my gosh, if I just buy these and use my brain, everything’s gonna explode. The ceiling is. Through the roof.
You know, you gotta
Jared: try hosting this podcast, man. You just feel dumb every week with some of the people we have on here. , .
Forrest: Well, you start to realize it’s not true. But back to the point, there’s an endless amount of stuff to learn and there’s an endless amount of shiny object syndrome and what can we try that might work to really be a flywheel opportunity for us?
And I had to come up with a system to contain myself because hiring a director, then you feel like, oh, I can just tell them to do all these things. J, try this thing, try this thing, try this thing. And then they get nothing real done. So K P I report and then start, stop, continue report, which is what new ideas, do we want to start this next month?
Do we think are opportunities worth pursuing? Which things are we gonna stop that we tried out last month that aren’t working? And what are we gonna continue? Cuz it actually worked and you have the two reports to look at it together, you know, this data with these efforts. Yep. And then, you know, software systems to scale your organization and management.
The, that side of it I’ve, I, I can do well at for a little while, but one of the reasons I hired a director and always insisted on having a manager is cuz I’m not super organized personally. I’m good as a solo person organizing my own thoughts and details, but a whole team, I really struggle with it. So I’ve gone through base camp, click up, Asana, Trello, all those.
And I would say those are huge. If you’re good at that. If you’re not good at that, I would suggest finding someone that’s a compliment to yourself who’s really organized and let them pick how they want to do it and just manage them.
Jared: Mm-hmm. . So you’ve obviously achieved scale on the back, we’ll say on the back of, you know, operational efficiencies hiring, scaling, managing that today.
What does your website process look like? What does an average website look like for you guys, and how are you actively building those today, right, with your team?
Forrest: Good question. Well, just on the content side, this is the side that I am not the one directing this part, but it typically looks like, you know, if we’re gonna, if we’re dealing with a, either an acquisition or a preexisting, you know, content based site that, that a client wants us to operate for them, then we go in and do a full scale audit on the SEO side, look at the link profile, do a content audit, and get our minds wrapped around where it’s at now presently.
And then we just look at for the future, you know, what are the goals we have on that k p report for the client or for ourselves. And then if we do need more in-house resources from a human capital standpoint than we do interviews locally. I used to have riders all over the world, and I still have some, we, we have about half of our riders displaced, but then half of them are now consolidated into our branch office, which has been huge for us.
Not just, not just from the oversight angle, but also the buy-in of the riders. If they’re full-time for us than they do a lot better job and they can actually watch their performance and care about it too. But whenever you’re talking about forests myself, what does it look like for me? We have a stateside senior designer.
And my primary ghost writer lives in Greece. And those three, me, the writer and the designer, work together a lot on creative projects. So we’re the creative team. If there’s something like trying to scale from a content site to also offer email marketing and products in communities, that’s gonna be our creative team.
Jared: that stuff. And do you guys have targets for these websites? Is it like a a build or buy and then hold? Are you trying to be selling websites every year along with acquiring websites? Just curious about the model for what you’re
Forrest: building. Yeah, I, I, whenever I did the real estate thing, it was the same, same question.
I got a lot. Cuz I don’t, I don’t sell a whole lot. I usually just try to keep it and grow everything. And I know that’s different than some people, but for the most part, yeah, we’re aiming to grow them indefinitely. Now I know that’s a little silly cuz it’s not gonna happen. We are gonna sell. Pretty much every website we build or buy, but we don’t think of it like we’re gonna exit in two years or three years, except on the seedling sites that I’m doing in my own portfolio now.
So the portfolio and numbers I shared earlier, that’s just mine. My personally owned 20 sites. And then we have our client side too, and all their websites that we operate and manage, though some of them have agendas and they wanna sell in a certain time period. But some of ’em are business owners who have had us create passive, turnkey, monetized blogs just like you and I think about all the time.
But they can turn into lead generation models for their businesses too. Mm-hmm. . So the exit is converted into a lead gen model for their business. .
Jared: That’s smart. That’s smart. All right. Share with us some operational tidbits that we probably don’t know because we’re not, you know, running sites at scale like you, or we’re not sit, we haven’t removed ourselves operationally from the day-to-day process.
There’s gotta be some insights you get to get because instead of being the technician, instead of being the manager, you kind of get to look at things from a high level. What are, you know, what are big mistakes operationally you see website builders making these days?
Forrest: I’ll, I’ll give you the most honest answer.
I, I think that most of the, most of the people I know that are operating niche websites or content sites are doing the right things. They’re following the right advice. They might spend more time kind of not, not confident. They might not know if it’s gonna work. I mean, if they’re one of the leaders, like that’s.
Already kind of made it, that’s not necessarily true. But if people are between zero and 2,500 a month on a site and it’s just one site they have, they don’t have two yet, then it seems like it’s gonna fail. Or maybe something might go wrong or a core algorithm update might mess with their site. And those are all true.
But the, the difference from my side is that I’m diversified and I think that that’s the way I suggest people go too, to start spreading across multiple sites, even if it was joining a team and forming like a small network or alliance where you have 10 sites that you’re all working on together in some shared way.
Yeah. This is not an operational technical insight like you want, but this is just what’s coming up for me. There’s a concept called the network effect that’s on Wikipedia, and it talks about the value added to. System when there’s a new member that joins, not from economies to scale or cost reduction, but from the value of the, the added member, like the telephone.
Mm-hmm. , you know, whenever the telephone was invented. Each traditional telephone makes the telephone in general more valuable for everybody. Right. And I, I personally think especially with the rise of ai, that smaller, newer content site operators should think about the network effect. I’m not saying you have to go join a little team and put all your shared equity in the pot, and then no one knows whose group project it really is.
But I do think if you’re a young content site operator, you can’t really think yet like an entrepreneur unless you’re
Jared: a part of a. So I’m hearing you say is that there’s a ton of value you know, in having multiple websites that you manage. And, you know, if you’re not at a point where you can get to those operational efficiencies, you know, even consider trying to find a way to mimic those operational efficiencies.
Forrest: Yeah. Which sounds a little crazy, but that’s what’s coming up for me right now. I think in the early stages, the only other technical advice I could give would be kind of like Michael Gerber suggests and the EIF revisited to map out the, the hierarchy of your whole organizational system of what you want five years from now.
So if it has the chief executives and the board of directors and then managers, subordinates and all that, map it all out and write role descriptions for every single. Role and then write a contract for every single role and sign every contract yourself. Or if you have a partner, each of of you sign on the roles you’re gonna take on.
But to treat those three distinct personalities inside yourself, the technician, manager, entrepreneur, as already there from day one. And to think of it like you’re already there. So start moving into the state of consciousness that you want to be in in the future now, and then work as though you’re already there.
So treat the subordinate forest like, Hey, why didn’t you get that article done today? You know, it’s time or whatever you, whatever you need to do in your own mental playground, do that because thinking toward the future and then creating it with your energy, I think is the name of the.
Jared: Split personalities all over the place.
Forrest: my gosh. Yeah. I , .
Jared: Let me let me take it from a really high level question and now get into a nitty gritty question. How do you decide operationally where to put time across the 20 websites that you have and the projects that you’re going after? I mean, you’re monetizing through both, you know, ad revenue through affiliate revenue.
How do you assign your, your team out in terms of a website? And, and, and, and how do you like, prioritize what content gets written and, and the comp complex? Cuz it gets complex, right? Like each website is complex and then when you have 20 of them, I’m curious how you make those decisions on a, on a micro level.
Forrest: Great question. We have shifted a couple of times even in the past 12 months, but again, I’ll shoot you straight. Those decisions were initiated by the director. Brought to me, we conversed, we analyzed, and then we made a decision. But it’s, it was still, you know, his idea and his follow through too, so full credit given him.
But one of the things we shifted was we sort of had a model where we treated my portfolio as though it was a client, or each website was a client. So they need those two cylinders of content and link building, and then they need someone somewhat overseeing, you know, the manager, the managerial SEO director, needs to look over everything every now and then and make sure everything’s tightened and things like that.
But what we found is that on some of the websites that needed higher quality links, in particular, our link building strategies needed, Another tier up. So we regrouped and formed small teams for each blog now. So every blog has kind of like a director of its own, and those people get training in multiple departments instead of just one.
So each director of a blog is trained in how to do harrow links, how to reach out themselves and things like that. And that so far not only gets better results for us, like we get more links built, but they generally have a lower cost too. That’s one shift we made. And honestly, I wish I could tell you guys more.
Like I, I wish there was a video I could, I could send you from MQ on how he did that cuz the technical super nitty gritty things, I don’t know the answer, so
Jared: Fair enough. The, the, the, the true answer from being the entrepreneur of the business, right? ,
Forrest: just like I look at the reports and I do, you know, if we need to have a conversation.
And I need to analyze it with him. We do, but it is largely driven by him. Now
Jared: you, you’ve mentioned the word or the, the acronym, K P I or key performance indicator many times, and it sounds like you have gotten accomplished it really managing from a dashboard, if you will, and really understanding what’s important to the business and trying to stay in your lane in the management role.
What are your KPIs today? Are they still the same two KPIs you referenced earlier and why did you pick the KPIs that you have?
Forrest: Yeah, so in the reports, I just look at number of words, published, number of articles, published revenue from which categories. And then sometimes we make, you know, investments into building links to certain cornerstone articles or newer important silos.
So I’ll, I’ll review KPIs that, that have to look at like those high level things. And then if there’s a special report that’s just the last page, like here’s a special report when we do new things, like we just started producing video for YouTube last January. That’s kind of a new process. So I’ll step in more and build a new report for that.
But you know, for new stuff also, I’ll just sometimes go in and click around and find it myself, cuz I don’t want the app to spend too much time on it. But yeah, I look at RPMs for each site over time, mapped out on a X YIs over time. I do sometimes go in and look at the fine details of which individual pages have higher RPMs than others, and toy around with experiments with paid ads.
One time I had like a Facebook ad to a DIY gardening blog that somehow was costing me like less than a penny and a half per click, and the RPM was at 28 or 30, so I thought, oh my gosh, I can just send traffic here and retire, you know? But it only lasted for like a month.
Jared: Must have been a good month. .
Forrest: It was a small, small.
Jared: I, we, I just got done interviewing an individual who’s talked about Facebook ads for bloggers. So that episode will either have already gone live by the time this one does, or be going live very soon. A little tease there. Nice. Very interesting insights. You might wanna tune into that one.
Forrest: will. I mean, if you can build more value per visit, you know, not just like the display ad, but if it’s a high value page, I can totally see how you could scale
Yeah, it’s it was very fascinating. Opened my eyes and certainly got my, got my wheels turning. Okay. So those are the KPIs you look at. Talk to, I, I really would like to learn from you as we start to wind this down a bit because I think. Our industry, all industries are, are like this. But you know, we get back into technician mode very easily where a lot of us do website building because we have a passion for it, because we enjoy it, because we actually enjoy all the technical side of things and it’s very easy.
E even if you’ve made the decision to step back and hire people to help you, it’s very easy to get back into it. And this might not necessarily be hiring an SEO director or an operations director. It could even be getting in the business of the writers that we hire. It could be, you know, getting too deep into maybe link building with someone you’ve hired or et cetera, et cetera.
Right? Like, what can you share that’s helped you? Truly stay out of other people’s business and empower them as leaders rather than kind of getting in the way of what they’re doing because, you know, you wanna get back involved.
Forrest: Yeah, man. Great question. And it’s not, it’s not easy for me all the time, but I do think one advantage I have as being extraordinarily lazy in a certain way, like for real, I think the fact that I have had this clarity, like I don’t really want to be doing a whole lot of technical work in my life.
I love learning, but it’s this weird thing for me where as soon as I mentally master something, my energy just plummets. It’s like I can’t lift a finger to do something in that world. So, you know, embrace your inner lazy a little bit. That’s one small reference, but I think when you said earlier, you know, staying in your lane, I don’t think that language a lot, but that’s a great way to say it.
It’s like, you know, respect, respect them, respect that they’re gonna have a learning process that generally might be slower than yours. It might, they might learn at half the pace that you learn at, and that’s totally okay. In fact, they might end up being more of an enduring worker than you because of that.
So the last thing is that, I don’t know about you, Jared, but for me, the times I’m tempted to jump back in to technical components of the business are usually insecure moments. Not insecure in myself, but I’m insecure in something. It’s like this, this area seems like I’m, I’m having less confidence that it’s gonna succeed.
So therefore I need to. Take it over. No, I need, I need to be the one that thinks about it really the hardest, and I’ll probably care about it the most, but it doesn’t mean I need to do something, you know?
Jared: So it’s much easier to stay outta the way when something’s going really well, .
Forrest: Exactly, yeah. It’s like got your reports, all the lines are pointing up.
But when they point down, and maybe if I had a stressor earlier that day or earlier that week, those things impact me the most on that exact topic. Like, that’s totally been a journey for me that you’re talking about. So yeah, I just notice it first, like, oh, I’m feeling insecure about this. Is this really, is there a due cause that this person is not capable of handling that?
And usually the answer is no. They are. They may have had a bad day too. .
Jared: Mm-hmm. . Mm, that’s good. Where, so where are things where are things going with with, with, with, with your portfolio you looking to grow it? Are we gonna see 40 sites next year and 60 the year after? You know, like what, what’s, what are the plans?
What, what, what is the five year goal you referenced right down five years from now, what’s the five year goal?
Forrest: My five year goal, I’d love to have one of my, the blogs, I’m, you know, I’ve started from scratch. That’s more of a passion interest type website. I’d still love to build a couple, you know, product ladders that offer real value to a community that I align with and care about.
I still really want to do that. We’re focusing the creative teams energies on the agencies right now. So it’s still pretty new. It’s a year old, but we, you know, we started serving clients and one thing that occurred to me is in my business background with real estate, I did try a couple. Side gigs after Felicity.
My first daughter was born early. I mentioned I tried some consulting and I tried buying a small business locally, and I didn’t really enjoy either too much, so I moved into this. But I’ve never actually built a business with clients. I’ve never grown apart from utilizing capital or capital relationships and then just doing the American leverage thing where it’s like, oh, well, weighted average cost of capital is six and a half percent when I average the debt and the equity and the return on investment for websites is 30% per a year, so I’ll just retire now.
I really actually want to have the challenge to like, okay, I had this. Person I met and that created a relationship that’s really valuable for them and built the business by $25,000 of value. That’s awesome. And that’s felt rewarding in all new ways for me. So the next five years probably look mostly like, you know, the portfolio is the engine for everything we do online.
Yep. I would love it if this next year, in the first six months, we grow the agencies to the point where they’re larger than my portfolio. Hopefully some of those owners own portfolios of their own, and each one is, you know, planting new seedling sites all the time. But I want to diversify the mediums that constantly produce.
So more YouTube videos, higher quality pages, and that kind of, I want to do the product ladder on some of my personal blogs. And I think the next goal, you know, maybe three or four years out, although everything seems to happen slower than I anticipate would be some software sales or some tech like, I think that a WordPress plugin develop for portfolio owners that shows those KPIs we’re talking about.
And even more granular details, like how is each writer performing? Can we give them a score based on how their articles ranked? And just like a dashboard inside WordPress, or if that makes it too heavy, take it outside. But developing something for portfolio owners like me would be a.
Jared: I could use that plugin if you ever get around to it.
Wouldn’t that be cool? That would be cool. That would be good. Especially if it had some pre-baked KPIs that would help, you know, management. Wow. Forest Tower has gone by in a hurry. I really appreciate Yeah, I know. I really appreciate you coming on. It’s, it’s we’ve had some different website operators who do it at scale on over the last couple of years, and I’m always fascinated by how different each of the conversations ends up going, because you guys all have a different angle that, that you seem to take on it.
Your angle is fascinating to do this interview because it’s so operationally focused and so leadership focused and I really enjoyed hearing a lot of the insights you shared about, you know, kind of some best practices for leadership, for managing, for scaling, for operations. So it’s really been a treat having yawn.
Thank you for coming and, and, and spending this hour with us.
Forrest: Gosh, thank you man. I hope it’s helpful to
Jared: somebody. And again, your, your, so your agency, which is set up for bloggers, is dig.co. That’s d i g i t a i l.co. Did I get that right?
Forrest: Yep, that’s right. And then if you add a back slash affiliate, then there’s a page there for people too.
Jared: Okay, good. Well, we’ll get that in the show notes. Anywhere else that that you’re active that people can follow along with y on?
Forrest: Yeah, we, we launched Force weber.com two Rs and four two B’s and Weber in June. and , that’s gonna be, you’ve said that before . I know, I always have to say that, but we’re gonna put a lot of energy and focus into that site to help both the new blogger and the new blogger who wants to become a portfolio owner.
So check that out too. Sign up for the emails and I’ll be in touch there. Okay.
Jared: Very good. Well force, thank you so much. Look forward to catching up with you in a year or two and seeing where that where that portfolio is in, in the meantime all the best. Thanks.
Forrest: Thanks man.
Jared: Thank you. Introducing niche sites.com.
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Again, it’s niche sites, plural Niche sites.com/trial. Go claim your free content today. I wanted to let you know that today’s episode is sponsored by Search Intelligence. Here’s a short clip of Ferry from Search Intelligence showing you how their agency built digital PR links to a client’s. In
Forrest: this video, I will show you how we landed a placement on B BBC and dozens of links in massive regional online publications such as Words Online, daily Posts, and many more.
This PR campaign was about the easiest place to pass your driving test for the first time in the uk.
Jared: This is how we’ve
Forrest: done it. We simply went to D Value website, found the latest car driving test data by test center, and downloaded the data in a CSB format. Once we had the data, all we had to do is to look at the number of total tests per test center, then look at the number of first time passes to calculate the percentage of people who passed their test for the first time.
Once we had the percentage. We created a press release with our findings. Then we went to Rox Hill and found journalists who talk about driving tests and also looked for journalists who write in regional publications in the uk. In total, we have found about 1,800 journalists and sent them our press release by email within less than a day.
Our story got picked up by PBC Cornwell, life Wells online, and dozens of other publications in the UK providing our client a tsunami of back links. Perfectly relevant to the audience of the client who is a specialist in learner driver car insurance. I hope this video is helpful and it shows you how you can also build links with freely available data from official sources.
Jared: If you want similar link building PR campaigns for your website, head to search-intelligence.co.uk and get in touch with them now.
This Week in Niche Pursuits News: What Jobs Will AI Replace? Google Releases Bard! 3 Weird Niche Sites.
Welcome to another episode of “This Week in Niche Pursuits News!”
This is a show where we talk about the most recent industry news, share success stories, discuss our shiny objects, and reveal a few weird niche sites we’ve run across.
In today’s episode, I’m joined by co-hosts Jared Bauman and Jake Cain.
Watch Niche Pursuits News
“This Week in Niche Pursuits News”
Google Bard opens up to beta users.
OpenAI release paper theorizing which jobs will be eliminated by AI: “An Early Look at the Labor Market Impact Potential of Large Language Models”
“Now That’s Impressive!”
Shiny Object Shenanigans
- Spencer’s “Faceless” Youtube channel now has over 580 subscribers.
- Jared continues to grow his Weekend Growth newsletter
- Jake is using Hubble AI tools to create a trip planner, hashtag generator, and more
“One Weird Niche”
- SaveTabSoda.com/. Tab Soda was discontinued by Coca Cola in 2020. Passionate fans are trying to bring it back
- PrisonInsight.com. Making $3,500/month – 100k pageviews. Ads only.
If you want to get more of this type of content, be sure to join the Niche Pursuits Newsletter here where I share similar topics 3 times a week.
read the transcription:
Spencer: Hey everyone, Welcome back to the Niche Pursuits Podcast. I’m your host, Spencer Haws, and this is another episode of a show called This Week in Niche Pursuits News. Now, Jared and I released the very first episode of this particular type of podcasts last week, and it was really well received, and so we’re gonna do it again.
So, Jared, welcome back to the show.
Jared: Thanks, we have an episode two, we didn’t know if this was gonna go.
Spencer: That’s right. And it went really well. We had lots of great comments on YouTube. A lot of great feedback, a lot of listens, and so it went well. Let’s do it again, and we’ve got a second co-host with us.
Jake is with us. Jake, welcome to the show.
Jake: Hey, thanks. Glad to be here. Hopefully people still like the show after I’m on it, so I feel like you’ve got a lot of pressure. .
Spencer: That’s right. You gotta. You know, and people are probably familiar, at least longtime listeners are familiar with you. You hosted actually a few episodes.
You’ve been on the podcast a number of times, so Jake is part of the Niche Pursuits family. So welcome, great to have you here. So as a reminder, if you listen to last week, we actually cover four different show segments, right? So the first segment that we do is we cover industry news, digital marketing news, and really just a segment now that we’re calling this week in Niche Pursuits News and then the second segment of the show.
That we’re gonna cover is something that is called now. That’s impressive. This is success stories, maybe niche websites or businesses that we’ve run across that are just doing something very impressive recently. The third segment that we’re gonna cover here is shiny objects, shenanigans. And this is where Jake Jay’s Jake, Jared and I are gonna talk.
Some of the side hustles that we’re working on, things that are just interesting to us. And then finally we’re gonna cover one weird niche where each of us bring a sort of weird niche site, something with a unique angle to the show that we’re gonna talk about that hopefully just sparks some ideas for listeners.
So having said all that, Let’s jump into it. Before we cover our very first topic, I just wanna remind people that in addition to the podcast, I do have a newsletter that I send out three times a week. The Niche Pursuits Newsletter is actually formatted very similar to this podcast in, in that it covers a lot of news.
Success stories, even some weird niche sites. And so if you want to read similar things that we’re covering here in the podcast three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, get an email join the newsletter. It’s niche pursuits.com/newsletter. Okay, so the very first thing, I’m gonna let you kick this off, Jared you have a news item that you wanted to share here with Google Bard.
Jared: Bard is here. Which by the way, can we spend 10 seconds talking about the awful name or ?
Spencer: Yeah. Where we come up with this, we’re talking about
Jared: Google, which is such a cool name. I feel like Google is a company such a cool name and like the future of search is here and we name it. Gonna have to, gonna have to get used to that.
Okay, so Bard was released this week. A lot of people got an email. That’s how it was released. It would be an email to your inbox. It was released to the US and UK only. I do know of a lot of people who were overseas in other countries that VPN n and were able to get access that way. Just, just saying.
It’s only been released in English. Early word on it is that, It rarely is citing sources. So that was a big topic of concern, right? Like, hey, where are they getting their information? Are they gonna kind of take content from publishers and just surface it in their AI chat bot? Are they gonna give sources?
There’s been back and forth. So there’s been, you know, testing that’s been going around and there has been some use of sources, although not exactly a. It, it also seems from reports to struggle with to struggle in areas where you think it would kind of get it. Like with, for example, search intent being so important to Google.
It seems to really under have difficulty like understanding areas that have multiple meanings or complex, you know, ideas. So anyways, yeah, Bard is here. Obviously. Last week we talked about chat, G p T four and Google was quick to get Bard out the door this week, so I, I think you guys played around with.
Spencer: No, I’ve just joined the wait list. But I have not had a chance to play around with it, so I’d be curious. Yeah. Jake, I don’t know if you have, or Jared, if you have, but I have not seen how it operates exactly.
Jake: No, same here, man. I hopped on the wait list just to check it out, but haven’t, haven’t seen it firsthand yet, but yeah, I, I’m curious.
I, I don’t know my, my early thoughts on it and I have no idea how it’s gonna play out, but, , you know, when this was first announced and everybody was kind of freaking out, is I wonder if it’s going to be, people kind of freaked out when they started doing the rich snippet thing, right? Yeah. Where they just sort of give you the answer to a lot of those q and a simple questions up front and they kind of have the link, but how many people really click through that, you know?
So like the zero click searches. So I’m kind of curious if it’s gonna. , not much you knew about nothing but similar to that. Right? Like maybe a better experience of that. So like the same people who already weren’t gonna click through to your site, they asked how many ounces are in a cup or whatever, and they’re not gonna come read your article about that.
Like, are those the people that still aren’t gonna click anything with Bard and Right. Are most of the people that are really looking for like a resource and they want to read up on something, there’s still gonna be a visitor. Like that’s the way I’m hoping it plays out. But I don’t know. I guess we’ll all
Spencer: find out.
Yeah, exactly. And it’s I don’t know if we know too much, maybe correct me if I’m wrong, about how exactly this is gonna be implemented, right? Yeah. I think right now you can get on the wait list and maybe try out Bard, you know, it’s just sort of lives on its own, right? Kind of like Chad, g p t is just kind of on its own.
But eventually, yes. I mean, you have to imagine that Google’s gonna implement something right directly in the search results.
Jared: Google’s been interesting about this, right? Because they’ve said that it’s. Intended to replace search. It’s more for creativity. You know, I can’t remember the exact language they’ve used, but they’ve been very clear, like, well clear after they botched the launch and their stock price drop a bunch, but clear now and it’s not intended to replace search and more of a creativity tool.
I wonder how that’s gonna, like you said, Jake, impact the way they roll it out. You know, is it gonna replace search features or is it gonna kind of be an additive to search
Spencer: feature? . Yeah. So time, time will tell, you know, we’ll, we’ll kind of take a look at it. I kind of lean towards what Jake said in terms of I don’t think it’s gonna be like an immediate, like no longer getting clicks to your website, right?
It’s gonna be more like a, a, a rich snippets or, you know, maybe a knowledge panel or something, right. That, that maybe even most people don’t even use. I, I have no idea. So, so we’ll see. Very interesting developments happening from. You know, also related to artificial intelligence open AI just this week released a full study where they looked at the jobs that would be impacted by artificial intelligence and in particular tools like chat, G p T.
And so they had a full study report that they just released. And it gave some of the you know, occupations that will no longer be around potentially. Right. Or at least that will be. And so let me actually share my screen here of it’s, you know, in a PDF here. And I’ve, I’ve scrolled for those viewers here on YouTube.
They can see this. But we’ll talk through some of these. So I don’t know if you guys can see this but this is basically, it lists the exposure that these occupations have with artificial intelligence, right? Interpreters and translators have an 76.5% exposure. For example, you know, survey receivers 84.4%, mathematicians, tax preparers, financial analysts, writers and authors, web and digital interface designers all have a hundred percent exposure, which I assume means they could be fully replaced by AI , right?
Yeah. . And then there is one interesting one down here. Search marketing strategists. Mm. This is with the highest variance, right? So 14 point a 5% variants. I guess that just means they really don’t know, you know, in their models, right? Some might say it’s 80%, some might say it’s only 60%. Anyway, so I think that’s kind of a broad term, you know, search marketing strategist.
There could be a lot of different aspects. The do or. Get replaced. Now, here’s the jobs that open ai, according to their study, says, will not get replaced by artificial intelligence, if I can find that. I thought it was on page 29. 29. Yeah. There we go. Thank you. So if you take a look at these agricultural equipment operators, athletes and sports competitors, cooks, short order cement, masons, concrete cutter.
Fish cutters, dishwashers, dredge operators. I think you get the idea. There’s a whole list here. These are manual labor type positions, right? And so if you’re in one of these positions, you’re safe basically from artificial intelligence. And so the one interesting thought that I have is that if you have a college degree and you’re a knowledge worker, like your job is in.
Right. But if you didn’t go to college, like you’re safe , right? Yeah. Or, or if you’re doing manual labor jobs. So what do you guys think of this? Like, kind of what’s your take? Yeah. Do you find anything interesting about some of this from open ai?
Jared: Well, I mean, clearly AI is gonna have a big impact on some jobs.
And I mean, with what you’re able to put into. Like chat g p t and get answers back. It’s pretty phenomenal. You were talking last week about getting help on homework, you know, so I, I wonder if tutors on there as well, right? Like, there’s some things that just seem like they’re really in danger, you know?
But at the same time, I, at the, you know, the attitude I keep bringing to is I was around as a professional photographer when the transition from film to digital happened. Mm-hmm. , and it, it, you know, it wasn’t ai, but the digital camera seemed like AI compared to a film camera. . Remember there were days when, as a professional photographer, you couldn’t see the back of your camera to see whether you took a good picture or not.
you know? And so it was almost like having ai and what it became more about now was other factors in your photography, the experience, the branding, the marketing, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, all these jobs, it’s gonna be interesting to see how AI incorporates with them. I doubt many will disappear completely, but will just change in the way that people consume them and interact with them.
Jake: Yeah, same. I you know, one thing that’s just amazing to me is all this stuff is rolling out is like, how quickly it’s all changing. You know what I mean? Even from like a few weeks ago, like stuff that I’m doing with my business that I’m trying to incorporate, some ai, like how I’ve thought about it has changed just from weeks ago, by new tools that come out and all this stuff.
And so it’s just, it’s so fast moving. It almost feels foolish to make predictions. I was kind of surprised on that list that like translators was like 75%. I feel like that’s a. one that it could be really good at. And then the one that could be interesting is like accountants and stuff like that, which, you know, nobody likes that kind of stuff.
It had that at a hundred percent. I think it, it’ll be interesting to see what kind of tools get developed around that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? Cuz that’s an industry I feel like they could, TurboTax and all that stuff exist, but you know what I mean? Like if there are some really cool AI generated finance tools, right.
That seems like that could be pretty exciting. But I mean, who knows, man, it’s. It’s happening very quickly.
Spencer: I think. I think that’s right. It it, it’s changing kind of by the minute here. You know, I think there’s companies that are probably already working on tools for every single one of those right.
Occupations that we just mentioned, right. That are building that next tax preparation software where, I don’t know, you just upload your, your documents and like it’s done. Right. And, and they’ve optimized for every tax loophole you can find. Right. automatically via. So we, we live in just very interesting times in particular, you know, as bloggers and and niche website creators.
I’m trying out new things with my site, you know, with Chad g p t plus. I know you guys are as well, and so I guess just keep listening, you know, as we find out things we’ll, we’ll share what’s working for us. So, okay, we’re gonna move on to the. Segment of our show here and it’s called now. That’s impressive.
This is where we bring something that we’ve either a success story or something that just we’ve found very interesting here recently in the past week. Now, before we do that we gotta pay some bills. We’ve got just a quick sponsored spot from Link Whisper. And for listeners that are somehow unaware, I actually am the creator of Link Whisper.
It’s an internal linking plugin that I created outta my own need about three years ago now. Jared, Jake, do you guys use Link Whisper? I do every hour . I love it. Every hour. That’s, that’s a lot. I mean,
Jared: not me personally, but someone on the team over here uses it. Yeah. Yeah. We, we use it a lot. You know, privilege to, to, to help you out with some of the back and forth in the early days.
So it definitely, I mean, you know, link internal linkings, it’s difficult and it’s, it, it, it really makes short work out of the 80 20 of it, right? Like, you know, getting 80%, 90% of the internal linking you need done in minutes rather than, you know, what can sometimes seem like ours. ,
Spencer: Jake, how do you use Link Whisper?
Jake: Yeah. Same, you know, I’ve been using it since the early days. A lot of times it’s just simple stuff that I have my team trained on, so it becomes part of the publishing process. So just try to make sure, like we don’t have any orphan posts, so like posts that exists with no link back to them. So like right after we do it, we go run that report and like find the most relevant spot and add, you know, one to three like relevant links and it just takes an extra couple of minutes rather than going back.
editing the post. So it’s just one of those things that once it’s like into your system, that way it saves you a ton of time and it’s well worth it. So, yeah. Yep. Big
Spencer: fan. Awesome. Thank you guys. So if people listening want to go check out Link Whisper, they can go tolin whisper.com and I do have a $15 off discount if you use the Discount Code podcast.
So go to link whisper.com, add to your cart, and then at the checkout screen, enter the. Podcast, you’ll get $15 off link whisper if you wanna check that out. All right. Jake, you’ve got the first item here on the, now that’s impressive segment of the show. Why don’t you tell us what you found? .
Jake: Yeah. So I was gonna talk about this koala again, AI writing tool which I heard about and I feel like a lot of people have been buzzing about.
I heard about it from John Dykstra, the Fat Stacks newsletter, which I’m on. I’m, I’m a big fan of John’s, like, I feel like we have a very similar philosophy for building sites and he’s very much like a content snob, I feel like, is the, the sense that I get. So when he put out a pretty heavy endorsement for like an AI tool, I was.
I feel like I should check this out. And they also have a pretty sweet lifetime deal going on right now. So anyway you can do some nice free testing with it, but I’ve used. Jasper and tools like that, just kind of playing around with it. And we use AI strategically, but I tell you what, this thing does have some really impressive things about it and it’s simplicity.
So, you know, just putting in a topic and then you’re able to, it’s able to kind of pull sources from the internet live, so like it will link to like references and things like that. And it also gives you an outline which you can change before it actually runs the article. And anyway, yeah, I’ve.
Maybe an hour with it, you know, just kind of playing around with d different topics and yeah, like if you’re somebody that’s in that world using a tool like Jasper, I would give it a look because it’s, it’s pretty darn impressive, man. So but yeah, I just saw that like 48 hours ago. But it’s pretty cool if you’re looking for, for a tool in that space.
Jared: Jake, you, you kinda labeled yourself a bit as a content snob. Just borrowing the term by the way, not assigning that too, but ha have you figured out how you’re gonna use it? Have you, you know, kind of taken it for a test drive in terms of how you’d use it on one of your websites?
Jake: I’m working on that .
Spencer: Fair enough, fair enough.
Jared: good enough to, to, to, to lean into, I guess, is what you’re. .
Jake: Yeah. Yeah. For, for certain types of content, you know, and I think that that’s and the content saw, I, I was referring to, I feel like John is kind of like that, like about his writers. And so he said for now he’s kind of using it for like social media content.
So probably that for now, like lists where you don’t, you know what I mean? Lists of ideas, lists of inspirations, stuff like that. I feel like it would do an excellent job with that. And if you have a team in place that can come back and add custom images and those sorts of things, like. You know, build that into a nice piece of content.
So that’s probably where I would, I would start with it for sure. But yeah, it’s an interesting tool. I like.
Spencer: Yeah, I’m doing a kind of a live chat here on the screen for, for viewers here and, you know, just write a list of the 10 best WordPress plugins for seo. It’s cool, it, you know, it pulls up the actual sources, right?
It, it gave me a nice list here and, and pulled up the, the sources for that, which, yeah. I, I don’t know that chat g PT Plus does that. It usually doesn’t pull in sources or links. I feel like the G P T four is doing that
Jake: a little bit. Is it? Okay. But if you go to the Koala writer Spencer, that’s obviously we don’t have to do, do a full demo.
This is the one that’s that’s kind of the impressive one, I think like that Gotcha. Actually creates like a full article. Right. So you start with, you have to have the paid version to do G P T four. Yep. But you start with the target keyword, and then you can like, set up some things down below, like presets as far as like tone of voice and.
how long you want the intro to be and stuff like that. And then basically it will give you an outline on the next page to which you can edit, right? So if you wanted to add, kind of do your own research, which I like, you know, add in some more subheadings of things you think you should cover, take some things out and then it will write the article.
So it kind of has that step in place, which I kind of like, it gives you a little bit more control over the output. And then yeah, the, the final result that I’ve seen is it’s been really. .
Spencer: Yeah. And you know, it’s interesting because all of these, of course, are layers on G P T four, right? Right. Yep. But it’s, it’s cheaper, right?
Like it’s $20 a month to get G P T four on your own. This is nine bucks a month, right? And so it adds, adds some layers maybe that make it specific to writing blog posts, et cetera. Now, I, I will just say that I’m not an affiliate for Koala. I have not used it. But I’m gonna sign up as an a. Real quick.
So if anybody listening wants to check it out, I’m gonna assume I’m gonna create this after the show. But you can go to niche pursuits.com/koala, we’ll see if I can get you you know, anything special there by the time this is released. So alright. Jared, what do you got for us? Well,
Jared: I, I I believe that next on the list, Spencer, is you, is actually me.
I think that you, you’ve got a double whammy here and now that’s impressive.
Spencer: All right, so I saw a story about Baremetrics. Now, I don’t know how familiar everybody is with Baremetrics, but it’s basically an analytics tool that you can upload your, you know, if you’re, you’re selling a software tool or you’re a SaaS company, you’ll use bare metrics.
To help you understand your monthly recurring revenue, your churn rate give, y’all create a p and l automatically, right? Like tons of stats is, is what this tool does. And somebody posted that the, the team over at Barometric changed their pricing. They increased pricing by two and a half times, just maybe six months.
And the reason they did that is because they purchased the company. So the original creator of Barometric sold the company maybe a year ago, and then the new company that bought it, they increased the price like two and a half times. And what’s cool is that Baremetrics shows the stats live of the company.
It’s an, it’s an open company so you can see the exact revenue. demoing their tools. So I’m sharing the screen, and this is showing bear metrics. You can see that their monthly recurring revenue is $261,612. That’s the, that’s as of today. This is live, this is their real business, right? We, we can see everything.
So it’s, it’s very cool way to show off their product, right? This is Bear metrics, but it’s the stats for barometric the business. And what’s interesting, so if I go. All time. This created a lot of buzz when the company was sold and then the new company increased prices by two and a half times.
You can see this huge spike , right? Their recurring revenue went from 191,000 a month to 334,000. Everyone’s like, whoever sold this company was an idiot. They should have just increased prices and doubled, you know, almost their recurring revenue. But now what’s happening is you can see over time, The recurring revenue is essentially in a nose dive now coming back down closer to that original 191,000.
So the question is, was increasing price by two and a half times a smart move or a bad move? And I, I don’t know that I know the answer, but I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on this. I mean, on one case, yeah, they’ve made a lot more money over the past six. , but now they’ve got a business that’s in decline.
But maybe they have less customers that are willing to pay higher price. What do you think?
Jared: Well in theory it’s easier to operate a company with less customers for the same pri, you know, for the same. , but it’s also a lot harder to grow a company that’s in decline versus continue to grow a company that has upper trajectory.
For sure. I mean, I understand the, the, there is a, a long held business philosophy that in like instead of incrementally tic-tac raised prices here and there, like just go for the price point you’ve now established you need to be at and deal with the churn and the problems and survive that. . I would say that if this is part of like a really well thought out, thought out, long-term strategy, they haven’t, you know, they haven’t you know, it’s a nose dive, but it’s not, it’s not terrible yet as part of a bigger strategy.
It could work. It could definitely work. But that, that, that, that, that nose side doesn’t
Spencer: look good. No, it doesn’t. And it’s just, it’s very interesting because the, the original founder of Barometric was always very public on Twitter about sharing his revenue stats and what he was doing in the. And so it was just this, this huge deal, you know, when the new company raised prices and, and so in a way he’s being a little bit vindicated.
I’m sure he is actually enjoying seeing this decline. The, the original founder , it’s like, okay, few. I wasn’t like terrible about kind of keeping prices where they were. So, we’ll, we’ll see how that goes. But if anybody wants to check it out, they can go to demo.baremetrics.com. You can see the live. Anytime, you know, there’s lots of companies that share their numbers publicly.
You know, I often go look at Convert Kit. They share their numbers publicly. It’s kind of fascinating to see these businesses. How’s Convert Kit doing? It’s doing really well. , I was looking at it I think yesterday just because I was on barometric. It’s like 2.8 million recurring revenue a month.
Well, geez. Cause they were, their
Jared: prices recently. I don’t know, a year, like a year ago. Two maybe six months to a year ago, I think. Yeah.
Spencer: Yeah. They’re doing really well. There you go. Yeah. That’s crazy. It is indeed. All right. I’ve got one other one here that’s more in the niche site space. So, Ian Nuttle is pretty public on Twitter as well.
He recently sold a package of two sites through FBI FE International and. , he sold them, I believe he said mid six figures. He didn’t give the exact price, but he said he sold them for mid six figures and he was willing to share the websites. So the first one is visual fractions.com, and I’m gonna share that here, right?
And so it’s, it’s got calculators, you know, conversions. Fractions, right? And. . I think I need to go. Are you guys seeing an a’s uh, screen now? I think I might need to stop sharing. You know what I’m see visual fractions. Oh, now you don’t aps. Yep. Yeah. And then I just pulled up visual fractions on a hf, so you can see it’s an oppressive site, right?
Like he mm-hmm. grew it quite quickly. He has used, I believe, for both of these sites, primarily programmatic s. And so he’s a programmer. He finds lots of very similar, you know, keyword phrases and builds out, you know, pages in a programmatic way. So the second site that he sold in this package was worksheet genius.
And apparently he just found a way to crank out a bunch of worksheets. , right? . So it’s kind of an interesting niche. I’m just pulling some of these. . Okay, so
Jared: this would’ve applied nicely last week for your your tutoring example,
Spencer: Spencer. Yeah, you’re right. . It would’ve. And so I’ll show this one here also in a rs, right?
So both of these sites, you know, getting over 600,000 organic visitors
Jared: among, and we know a tends to short it. I mean, those are some impressive keyword and traffic numbers.
Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. And so anyway, it’s just kind of cool so people can check those out. You know, worksheet Genius and visual fractions.com.
Just something I ran across. He sold it for mid six figures, so, I don’t know, half a million dollars, $600,000, something like that. Nice little exit. And uh, all through programmatic seo. So in very interesting angle there.
Jake: Are you guys doing anything that’s in the programmatic vein at all in your, in your.
Jared: a little bit, and we’ve had some success with it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s, it is very intriguing. It gets, I don’t know about you, but every time I, I see an example that’s using programmatic seo, my heart kind of flutters a bit. Like, it really gets me excited,
Jake: I agree actually. Yeah. I’m, I’m kind of fascinated by it. I’ve actually communicated with Ian a little bit via email. Just sent him some newbie type questions in that world. Just trying to wrap my head around it because. at one level, the concept seems simple, but then like the, how do you actually do that?
That part I don’t really get, but smart guy, man. I love that aspect of the site. You just showed how it’s, you’re sort of building a worksheet on the fly, like, you know, like you’re checking these boxes. I want it to be about this and a little bit more difficult. Like, I have no idea how he pulls that off, but like, I think for people that can do that, like it shows the power of like having an interactive tool like that, you know what I mean?
Like, Diversity can be, if it’s something that’s like truly helpful yeah, it probably like really easy for ’em to build. I don’t know, ,
Jared: but that is I would say I don’t want, I don’t wanna label it like more advanced, but certainly like the more basic programmatic sites you might think of are like, what’s the population of Geneva, Switzerland?
And it, you know, pulls a data set in and you know, so it’s the sites that you just had up Spencer that, that Ian made, there was a lot more going on for those. And you know, so I think that that’s, , you know, feather in his cap. Like he’s really building out sites that are a little bit more substantive than kind of some of the basic programmatic SEO stuff you might
Spencer: think of, right.
Yeah, I think he’s got the skillset, you know, he is a programmer so he can kind of do it himself and tweak it and customize it. Whereas us, you know, people don’t have programming skills. You know, we’re kind of learning as we go. And if
Jared: you fall in on Twitter, every, every third tweet he shares, I’m like, I don’t understand what he just said.
I don’t really that.
Spencer: But there’s gotta be somebody smart listening right now to this podcast that maybe it’s gonna spark an idea for ’em. They’re like, I could build that. That would be so easy. Right? Yeah. And so that kind of leads us into our shiny object shenanigans. You know, programmatic seo, maybe a little shiny object that we’re, we’re looking at right now.
But this is a segment where all three of us are gonna just share kind of what we’re working. The side that is not our main business, not our main focus, but something that’s fun. So I’m gonna give another update on my faceless YouTube channel. I talked about this last week in the episode, and I think when I shared that, I’m gonna be looking over to another screen here.
About a week ago, that channel had 394 subscribers on it. And this is a fully outsourced channel. You. The face of the creator is not on this channel at all. Right. And so we’ve got voiceovers and some editors and, and we’re putting out videos. So it went from about 394 subscribers a week ago to now 591.
Wow. Now, nice. This is, yeah, thank you. This is still like a small channel Of course, but we’re trying to get that thousand subscriber mark where we can finally monetize it. So we’re getting close, like at this rate within like two. We’ll be there. We can finally monetize it, see what the RPMs are like on YouTube, and kind of go from there.
So this has just been super fun. Again, I, I’m working with a partner on it. I’m just outsourcing. I’m, I’m investing, I’m paying, and, you know, I, I have a partner doing all the work, but I love checking in. It’s, it’s, it’s just fun. that’s
Jared: more than 50% subscriber
Spencer: growth in one week. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s insane.
The one thing that we’re doing that’s a little bit different this week is we’re creating some shorts YouTube shorts, cuz my partner felt like, hey, doing a bunch of shorts might get more subscribers cuz we can Yeah. Pump out more videos quicker and that might help us, help us get subscribers. , that strategy appears to be working this week.
So Cool. That’s where we’re at. All right, Jared, what you working on?
Jared: I hope it works. Like I said last week, on so many levels still, still trying to you know, carve out a little time each week to build out the the weekend growth newsletter and email list. You know, we do a lot of list building and email marketing for clients at my agency.
I’ve never knuckled down and kind of started to just share stuff that I see working, whether it’s on my own websites or some of the websites we manage. So you know, every week trying to send out one email trying to do that for 12 weeks or three months. And we talked about that last week a bit, so we sent out another email.
You know, it’s still just trying to make sure I’m finding the right topics, I think. As now it’s week three. I’m, I’m trying to make sure, like I, I go after the topics that people might be interested in, but I’m not really sure exactly what people are interested in. Cause I haven’t been doing this very long.
But the email that went out on Tuesday all the emails have gotten over a 50% open rate.
Spencer: So that’s a good sign. Excellent. Yeah, that’s very good. It’s a good sign.
Jared: There’s, you know, some, some good interaction. So I I think the next thing I want to try, I’m gonna say it publicly here, is to try to make.
Five to 10 minute video about the topic I’m emailing out as well. And so we will see if I can do that, but I’m gonna try to do that for the next email that goes out next week and make a little video because I know you know people, a lot of people like to read your newsletters. Super popular. Spencer, obviously, you know, people read it three times a week, but you know, some people want to consume that content via maybe video.
So we’ll we’ll give that a shot. We’ll give that a shot. .
Spencer: I like it. So is the idea to build a YouTube channel is, is that where the videos are gonna live to kind of be in two places? They’ll live on YouTube?
Jared: Yes. Hadn’t thought about building the channel out, but . Yeah. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll put that down as a
There you go. Yeah, let’s do it. right here, right now. Commit as of
Jared: 30 seconds ago. It’s now a goal. ,
Spencer: that’s why we do this. Yeah,
Jared: yeah, yeah. No no, it’s a good point. I mean, yes, I think that’s, that’s an obvious natural next step to
Spencer: that. Awesome. Sounds good. . All right, Jake. Yeah. What you working on?
Jake: I love this topic.
Shiny objects are like my life. So like I’ve been it’s a real problem. Fortunately, you know, I’ve got about 10 or a dozen or so sites that really like make the money and I’ve like systematized those to a point to where like, the writers, the editors, et cetera, like it’s all kind of going right. And so I can spend a lot of my time just like tinkering with things, cuz I feel like it.
energy. But the tool that I’ve been playing around this week, it is connected to some of my sites, but it’s called hubble.ai. And I feel like I keep talking about ai, but connected with the founder his name’s Derek. Really nice guy. But it’s an exciting tool because they’re building like no code, low code type stuff where you can sort of use the power of AI to build kind of simple tools.
And so how I’ve been using that some real examples is kind of like a, like a. Let’s just say like a hotel comparison type tool, right? So you can upload your own data sets, right? So I was taking like information about particular properties, like hotels, putting them into the tool, and so it sort of knows that information and then you can kind of, they’re building out like a chat type interface.
But right now it’s more like a form or you can ask questions like, Hey, what’s most important to you? Like, , you’re going with just just a couple, or you’re bringing kids, like do you want to have a big pool? That sort of stuff, right? Like you ask those questions and then it can kind of plug that into the data and then give you, like, AI can basically provide the best answer.
So sort of like a trip planning type tool. The other way that I’m using it is I’ve got a site where I just built like a hashtag generator. So like sometimes people, you know, they might. Unique hashtag for like an event or you know, a family reunion or whatever, right? So for my purposes, I’d built a form that kind of collects what you need to know.
So like, what’s the name of your family? When’s it happening, where’s it gonna be? Are there any other nicknames or inside jokes? Like that kind of stuff is the form that I built. And then, On the back end, you kind of giving it instructions kinda like you would with chat g p t or whatever. Hey, give me some hashtag ideas that include this, this, and this, and make ’em funny and use alliteration and all of these instructions that the user doesn’t see, but they’re able to, to get that output.
So anyway, I’ve been yeah, playing around with that and it’s kind of in its early days, but they are like making very quick advancements and developments to the tool. But so yeah, if somebody’s out there that wants to kind of play around, , you know, you’re not a real techy person. It’s very easy to use.
might be able to build some, some cool tools like that. So I’ve been playing
Spencer: around with that this week. Yeah. So is the idea to kind of I embed these on your site, is that kind of how they live? They live on your site and you’re trying to get people either on your email list or further down you know, a funnel to make a.
Jake: Yeah. That, that’s exactly what it is. So like, in my case, like the hashtag generator in particular the niche that I’m in actually has a lot of search volume. And so there are people out there that have that tool. So it’s, you know, kinda like having a calculator or any other, you know, interactive tool on your site.
So we essentially wrote an article that like, has some ideas and like general tips for like building your own hashtag. And then we also have this hashtag generator, you know, that’s kind of at the top of the page. So that, that’s how I’ve been using it is to. Add some interactive content.
Spencer: So that’s, yeah, I’m hoping to Engagement.
Yeah. Rank adds engagement, keeps time on page longer potentially. Right.
Jake: Maybe build some links, you know, like if mm-hmm. people like it and share it, that sort of thing. Right. So and then, yeah, it was, took me like a couple hours to build, you know, I mean, it could take five minutes, but after doing a lot of tweaking and back and forth and getting it just right, you know,
Spencer: It’s pretty cool. That’s awesome. That’s really, yeah. And, and, and Jake is like the perfect person to talk about shiny objects because I I love it. We could, we could do a whole show about like all the little, like variations of, of stuff you’ve done and little projects you’ve done. Yeah. You know, we, we hop on a call every once in a while and we talk about kind of what’s our latest project, and Jake’s always.
Something. Right. Some something new. So I love it. This is this is good. Okay. Let’s move on to our final segment of the show. One weird niche where each of us bring one weird niche site or something unique that we’ve run across in the past week. Something that is maybe not your standard like niche site that targets a keyword that everybody else is trying to target.
Right. So let’s do it. Jared, looks like you’re up first.
Jared: All right. So there’s a little bit of a backstory behind this one that I, I wanted to go look into. Back. So my mother is a avid tab soda drinker. And talk about, you might remember tab soda referenced in the movie Back to the Future when Marty wants to get a tab.
That’s right. And uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a popular eighties drink that died off quick, unless you’re my mom and two other people in the Southern California area. But she was passionate about it. And when in 2020 Coca-Cola, the, the brand that owned it sunsetted it, they killed. and my mom’s been devastated ever since, but
But um, I got to thinking about it and I went looking and sure enough, there is a website that is called save tab soda.com. You got it up on the screen if you’re watching on YouTube. Yep. And there is a passionate group of fans that are heavily lobbying to bring tab. . If you go to Google Trends, I’ll tell you, interest does not seem to be dying off in tab soda.
You know. Yep. There you go. Yep. There’s a huge spike right there when Google when was announced they were killing it off, but Yep. There’s a look at that nice recent spike right there that might be from this podcast, .
Spencer: Oh yeah, we’ll double that after this is the least exactly problem.
Jared: If, if you go to Etsy, this is our eBay, sorry, not Etsy.
If you go to e. It’s not uncommon to see people selling one can of tab for $50 or higher. ,
Spencer: geesh. Oh, I love it.
Jared: Anyways, obviously all joking aside, there is a passionate group of fans that are doing this, and I don’t really, I don’t really know the monetization strategies around building something with this, but clearly there’s community, right?
Like there is a, there’s a community here and where there’s people that are, , you can almost always find ways to monetize. I don’t, I’d love to hear what you guys think. Just off the cuff, maybe crazy, weird monetization angles on this, but there’s a loyal group of people, there’s a passionate fan base, there’s a community that can be made and there’s nobody else doing it.
Jake: I mean, my first thought is just like merch, you know, like people that wanna wear. Shirts and stickers and all that kind of
Spencer: stuff. Right? Like kinda show I’m proud to you. He’s co following, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I think that’s a good idea. My, another angle might be like beyond just tab maybe have a whole website dedicated to discontinued products.
Yeah, there you go. And, and just write articles or like references like Tab was in Back to the Future and you have an article about that, you know, everywhere it was mentioned. I don’t know. So you could have all these people that. Had some product they were passionate about in the sixties, seventies and eighties.
Yeah. Or nineties or whatever that, that are gone. Maybe you have a whole website about that.
Jared: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even if just, I mean, right there alone, search traffic could drive a lot of you know, ad revenue, you know, could just be a simple play right there.
Spencer: Yeah. And maybe it’s low competition because like, who’s gonna write about tab?
I mean, it doesn’t exist , right. So, That’s true. I You have it. That’s a good one. That’s cool,
Jake: man. So are you gonna buy that on eBay then for, for like a Christmas present? Is that the plan?
Jared: It crossed my mind. I think I’m gonna shop for a deal, you know, I’ve got a couple months here where I can try to find a good deal.
Maybe I can get a six-pack, you know, an or best
Spencer: there. Find a two liter for 20 bucks, you know, or something. Yeah, yeah. All right. Awesome. Jake, you got an interesting one. .
Jake: Yeah. I saw this on Flip a and the guy that’s selling it, maybe he was on the podcast. I recognize his name. His name’s Ron Stefanski.
Is that somebody
Spencer: you guys know? Oh yeah, yeah, I know Ron. He’s over at one hour Professor. Okay. Is he,
Jake: I guess he’s the seller of it. So this is his site. Oh, okay. I mean, he’s got his name and stuff on there, so I’m not like disclosing any kind of secret info. But anyway, yeah, so Prison Insight and he was kind of sharing the story and I was just going through the listing and basically, according to.
Stats that it had on there, like the average numbers I had, it’s like making 3,500 bucks a month on average, like just over a hundred thousand page views on average, according to the, the flip a listing. It’s making all that through just display ads. But essentially when you go through the site, like I pulled it up in aaps, like, it’s just, they basically cover things like the visiting hours, like how to send letters, how to, how to make phone calls to an inmate, that sort of thing.
So the audience that it’s catering to, I guess, are people. Family members or loved ones that are like in jail. And so there’s all these different federal, state, et cetera facilities. And that’s pretty much it. So they rank for like, you know, like if you just type in the whatever, whatever correctional unit, like they’ll be on page one for that and you go and they’ve kind of got that basic information and that’s pretty much it.
Like it seems like they have some q and A type content. But yeah, I thought it was kind of a weird niche and it’s interesting to me because. . A lot of people think about that, right? Like what niche to get into. And I know for me, like a lot of my sites are on hobbies and stuff like that, , but it’s just, it’s always like re-energizing and fascinating to me when I find these, because like to be in the incarceration niche, right?
you would never think, at least me, I mean, it’s very boring information, right? Nobody’s like excited about it, but it serves a purpose. Like people are looking for it and it’s. , you know, I mean, he says in the listing like, he hasn’t touched it in a very long time. Like he literally does nothing to it. There are no, there’s basically is no upkeep, you know?
And so yeah, it’s just fascinating because it kind of, it to me like things like this shift your perspective a little bit. Yeah. Like if there’s somebody that’s out there that’s trying to think about, you know, , what niche should I get into? And that sort of thing. . I don’t know, man. Well, every once in a while you uncover some of these, right?
Where it’s just like, ah, I would’ve never thought about that. But this guy’s crushing a hundred thousand page views a month, you know, three grand a month, totally on autopilot, like mm-hmm. . It’s
Spencer: pretty impressive. I’d take it.
Jared: A lot of the advice out there, right, when you’re starting your website, first website maybe like find SL your’re passionate about all that.
Not bad advice by the way. , but you know, like the boring businesses, there’s a lot less competition usually, right? Because yeah, it’s not really a passion for a lot of people. And so you, you know, like as as you consider if you have the wherewithal to kind of, kind of get vetted in and really produce what you need to, to, to rank a site, like boring niches boring websites can be really attractive because nobody else is necessarily competing for it as much.
Spencer: Yeah. Yeah. And I love some of these keywords. I thought pretty cool. Yeah. You know, can you have nails in prison? Can you have Facebook in prison? Why do inmates get paid? Just things I, I’m on the same page. Never would’ve thought about, you know, this kind of being a niche and never really thinking about, Hey, there’s this much search volume.
Yeah. There, there’s actually this many people searching for all these correctional facilities and, and all these questions. Yeah. Surrounding it. He’s done a nice
Jared: job. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a nice looking website too, you know, like the new buyer is getting a site that maybe it hasn’t been updated much, but you know, it’s got a nice little logo.
It’s, it’s laid out, easy to read. It’s super simple, right. I don’t know what kind of theme that is, but it’s just a simple theme. Clearly is, is made for people to come read, get what they need, and, and have a good
Jake: experience. Didn’t you have a guy on the show the podcast that did like a DMV type
Like Yeah, yeah. dmv.org. Yeah. dmv.org. Yeah.
Jake: And it’s, I mean, it’s basically like sharing similar site thing, right? Like a government institution, right? Like the, the boat, the motor vehicle thing, right. And just kind of put it together in. User friendly way and I don’t know, maybe there’s something there, right?
So I feel like a lot of government sites like state by state and it’s gonna vary and it’s not laid out really well. You know, like if you could take some kind of government thing and like just present it in a better way, like that might be a niche right there, you know, like it seems to work. . Couple of examples where it’s worked clearly, so,
So good one. Yeah, that can give people some ideas might spark some different ideas for them to start a. The last one that I have that I ran across this week just so niche. So I, I don’t know, I never would’ve thought of this, you know. So the, the website is dog-checks.com, so dog checks.com with the dash in the middle.
I guess I better share my screen on this one. This is literally just a site where you can go and order check. That has a picture of your dog on it or so good of dogs. So good. Wow. Right. Dog checks. Like that’s, that’s not what I was
Jared: expecting. , when I first, when I first saw this on the agenda, I thought, is this like a name thing or like a dog name thing?
No. Then I pulled it up like, oh my gosh. So you can get your dog on your checks.
Spencer: Yeah. And like, I don’t know that this is gonna be making a lot of money, but it’s just a weird niche site I had to share. I mean that’s the whole website. It’s all. Finding, you know, a, a breed of a dog or, I think you can upload your own picture somewhere.
But what’s interesting is all of these that you click on, it’s, these are all just affiliate links, right? Whether you click more info, well, I’ll do that. It, or whether you click buy now, it goes to carousel checks dot. , they have an affiliate program that I was looking earlier, pays like 35%. Right. So it’s, it’s just an affiliate site.
They’ve got tons of listings of dog checks. Right. And I, I was looking at the traffic. It’s not a lot. Right? There is not a ton of people I think, searching for this particular term.
Jared: Did you see the backlink
Spencer: profile? I didn’t look at the backlink profile. It’s a DR. 70. Is it
Jared: really? That’s, I think so. I just put it into, yeah, put it into H address.
50 70. Wow.
Jake: I wonder if one of these like credit card companies makes where you can like upload your own photo to credit cards if they could sort of pivot into this century. and start doing custom dog credit card affiliate offers. So now those are pretty lucrative, right? ? Yeah. Dog, dog
Spencer: cards. , I mean, that’s what I was gonna say is my first thought is like, well, do people really use checks very much anymore?
But yeah, if they move to, you know, debit or credit cards maybe that’s the way to go. But yeah, and like the whole website is just listings. Like it’s, I don’t think there’s any content from what I’m seeing. You know, I’m not, see, yeah, it’s just order, check,
Jared: take back what I say. It’s a DR. 70, but not because it’s got great back links,
So something else, something else going on there. But yeah, .
Spencer: Okay, well maybe, we’ll, it is a Dr. Dive into that, but, but it is a Dr. 70, but it’s a DR. 70, but, so I, like I said, don’t know if it’s making much money. Probably not, but just an interesting niche, a weird, a weird niche. But
Jared: who knows? I mean, like you said, those affiliate commissions aren’t bad.
I mean, it doesn’t get much traffic though. But what a weird, what a weird niche.
Spencer: Yeah, yeah. There you go. So hopefully for people listening in, you know, one of those ideas maybe spark something that they can go out, they can start a site. There, there really are just so many ideas. There’s gotta be millions of different sort of niche sites that you can create, some of which maybe are a hundred percent reliant on Google, some of which are maybe not reliant at all on Google, right?
Maybe it’s a viral niche or just has a good PPC angle right there. There are so many ideas out there that people can explore. If anybody’s running across an another interesting or weird niche site, send it our way. We wanna keep doing this every. . So I think we got it. Got through our whole list here, guys.
What do you think? How’d we
Jared: do? That’s it. We covered it all.
Jake: I guess we’ll find out in the
Spencer: comments, . Yeah. How we did.
Jared: I don’t know, but we covered it
Spencer: all. . That’s right, that’s right. Hopefully people enjoyed this. Jake, thanks for coming on. We’ll maybe have you on again in the future. And Jared, of course.
Thanks for being here. As always, really enjoyed it. Thanks guys. We’ll see you. And just final note. As a reminder, anybody that wants to get more content like this, they can join the Niche Pursuits Newsletter. They can go over to niche pursuits.com/newsletter, where I send out similar topics three times a week.
Thanks again, everybody for listening.
Will You Make Good Cashback While You Shop in 2023?
If you shop online frequently, it’s worth using cashback sites to get money back on your purchases. Rebaid is one such cashback site, and in this Rebaid review, we’re going to explore if it’s legit and whether it can get you great rebates and discounts.
There are many cashback sites out there, which is why it’s tough to decide which ones are worth your time.
Before you use Rebaid, read on to learn about how it works, what it offers, how it pays, and whether there are any better alternatives.
In a hurry? Check out Rebaid here for free.
Ease of Use
Rebaid is a legit cashback site offering hundreds of discounts with many major retailers. If you love to shop online, it’s well worth using Rebaid to take advantage of their rebates and even get free products. Sign Up for Rebaid Today!
- Free to use
- Easy-to-use platform
- No payout threshold
- Get paid instantly after redeeming a deal
- High cashback rates of 25% – 100%
- Hundreds of offers in multiple categories
- Has an excellent 4.6-star rating on Trust Pilot
- Only available to US residents
- Can only redeem 10 deals in the first month
- Some cashback offers run out quickly
- Have to receive a check for first two payments
Rebaid Review: What is it?
Rebaid is a cashback site that offers money-back deals on a range of products, plus coupons and discount codes.
It’s partnered with a range of well-known big brands such as Amazon, Walmart, eBay, and Etsy to name a few.
It also offers the chance to win free products and cash prizes by entering sweepstakes.
When shopping through the site, you can get between 25% – 100% cashback on many products in various categories like furniture, home and kitchen, apparel, toys, office supplies, baby care, and more.
Brand owners can also use Rebaid for a product launch, which helps them increase their customer base, improve sales rank and get more Amazon reviews.
How Does The Rebate Process Work?
Here are the simple steps to start earning a rebate payment with Rebaid:
Sign Up for Rebaid
If you live in the United States, you can sign up for Rebaid and enjoy their cashback offers.
Click on ‘’I am a shopper’’ and fill out your name, email, and chosen password.
Search Through Rebaid Deals
Once your account has been created, you can start to browse for a product offer on Rebaid.
If you know what you’re looking for, you can shorten your search by clicking on the related category.
Alternatively, scroll down and search through the many available deals. These can be sorted by price, discount amount, and popularity.
Another option is to click the ‘Sweepstakes’ tab or the ‘Codes and Coupons’ tab to see what’s available.
Click to ‘’Redeem Offer’’
After finding a great deal you’re interested in, click the ‘Redeem Offer’ tab.
You’ll be prompted to choose whether you want to be refunded by direct deposit or a check.
Next, you’ll be redirected to the store where the item is being sold to make your purchase.
You’re eligible to use the deal one time for each product and can only access 10 rebate promotion offers in your first month on the Rebaid platform.
For the following months, you can access a higher number of offers and keep an eye on your limits in the shoppers dashboard.
Confirm Your Purchase
After buying the product, return to Rebaid and copy and paste your order number into the box displayed on the deal page.
This will trigger your rebate, and the cashback will be sent back to your account.
Receive Your Rebate
Rebaid will authorize your cashback amount.
Your first two rebates will be sent by check, and after that, you can opt to receive cashback via a direct deposit which incurs a $1 fee.
However, to get direct deposits, your account must be at least five weeks old, and you must have redeemed a minimum of two offers.
Rebaid Review: What Do They Offer?
There are two main ways to make money on Rebaid, which include:
Cashback, Sweepstakes, and Coupons
The best way to use Rebaid is by taking advantage of its many cashback offers.
They have hundreds of offers available, some with up to 100% cashback, so you can even get free stuff quite regularly!
Some cashback deals will only be available for a certain amount of purchases.
However, if you click on a deal and it has run out, the deal will often become available again at a certain time, which will be clearly stated in the top right-hand corner of the product image.
The sweepstakes are another way to possibly win cash prizes and free products. Just click on the sweepstake and enter your email address to be in with a chance of winning.
Check the countdown timer to see when the lucky winner will be chosen.
Coupons and codes work similarly to cashback offers. Click on the item you want to purchase and click ‘’Get Code’’.
Add the code when prompted on the order page, and you’ll be rewarded with a percentage off the original price.
Another option to make money with Rebaid is to join their referral program.
The Rebaid referral bonus is quite generous, and for every person who joins through your referral link, you’ll receive $10.
But you’ll only get this bonus once your referral has redeemed at least one offer through the Rebaid platform.
Rebaid Review: How Do You Get Paid?
Rebaid cashback is paid through check or direct deposit directly after a purchase is completed.
There is no payment threshold that you have to reach to get your cashback.
The only downside is that you can only get check payments until you’ve redeemed at least two product offers.
Check payments can take around 5 – 6 weeks to reach you. Direct transfer deposits may take up to 5 days to show in your account.
Rebaid Review: How Much Money Can You Make?
The amount of money you make with Rebaid will depend on how regularly you shop online through the platform.
Rebaid does have high cashback percentages of between 25% and 100%, so there is the potential to make quite a lot of money back.
However, you might not always find products you want to buy through Rebaid.
Plus, as a new user, you’re only eligible to take advantage of 10 product offers a month.
This amount will increase when you’re active on Rebaid, but there’s no set timeframe stated in the FAQs detailing how often this is.
Who Can Use Rebaid?
Rebaid is only available for US residents to use.
If you live outside the US, try one of the alternative cashback sites listed below.
Best Rebaid Alternatives
While Rebaid does offer some great cashback deals, there are many great alternatives that you might want to consider. These include:
On RebatesMe you’ll receive a free $10 just for signing up!
They offer up to 40% cashback when you shop at any of their 4,000+ partner stores.
To use RebatesMe, add their Chrome Extension to your browser. And, when you shop at store sites, you can click on any available cashback offers.
You can also scroll through the hundreds of deals on their website and click to activate any that take your fancy.
TopCashBack is another popular cashback site that was founded way back in 2005.
Initially, it was only available in the UK, but then it expanded to the US in 2011.
The site is free to join and free to use and can be accessed via the website or by downloading their app from Google Play or the App Store.
Once signed up, you can access cashback deals from over 4,000 big brands such as Groupon, Walmart, Amazon and more.
Their cashback rates are some of the highest in the industry, and you can choose to redeem your rewards via PayPal, direct deposit, or gift cards.
Swagbucks is a legit, get-paid-to site, that offers many ways to earn, such as shopping online, answering surveys, browsing the web, and watching videos.
They’ve partnered with over 1,500 popular merchants such as Target, Amazon, Walmart, Starbucks and more, where you can get cashback shopping through the Swagbucks site.
Choose to get paid via PayPal cash or gift cards, and you can earn $5 just for signing up.
Learn more about the platform in this Swagbucks review.
MyPoints is one of the most established rewards platforms, founded in 1996.
It partners with more than 1,900 retailers to get you cashback on a variety of everyday purchases.
By shopping through the MyPoints platform, you can take advantage of many rebate deals and you can even earn more by completing other simple tasks, such as:
- Watching videos
- Playing games
- Taking surveys
- Taking daily challenges
Choose to be rewarded with PayPal cash, a prepaid Visa card or gift cards.
Rakuten is a long-standing cashback site that currently has millions of members.
They offer a $10 free bonus just for signing up and partner with over 2,000 merchants, such as Macy’s, Sephora, Groupon and many more, to get you great cashback deals.
Use Rakuten by installing their extension to your browser or by downloading the Rakuten App.
Opt to have your cashback paid out via check or PayPal once every three months.
Rebaid Review: Is it Worth Using?
Overall, Rebaid is worth using as it has a large number of cashback deals with high cashback rates of 25%, right up to 100%.
This means you can even get products for free and save a decent amount of cash on different purchases.
However, Rebaid may not be right for everyone because you might not find products you want to buy, and you’re limited to 10 purchases a month.
If you’re looking to make more money online, check out these side hustle apps and these surveys that pay cash instantly.
Engage Your Audience With Humor in 2023
Memes are the life force of the Internet. And these days, memes have become so popular and relatable that they’ve crossed into the business world. They’re regularly featured in email marketing campaigns, blog posts, courses, and presentations. But with so many memes circulating, finding the right ones for your needs can be hard. That’s why we’ve compiled a list of the 11 best websites for memes.
These sites make finding the perfect meme for your next project easy. Whether you’re looking for a hilarious way to communicate with your team or simply want something to share on social media during times of stress, these memes websites have got you covered.
11 Best Websites For Memes: Whether You’re Viewing Or Creating Them
Finding the right meme can be difficult with so many out there. These 11 best websites for memes will simplify the process and help you find the perfect one.
Reddit is a social media platform where users can share and connect with their favorite interests and hobbies. It is a great place to discuss through images, links, text, and memes. Apart from posting comments, it allows members to vote up or down on any post to generate engagement.
Reddit has a huge variety of memes and GIFs available on its platform. You can find a subreddit on any topic, be it funny memes or the latest memes. Reddit has everything in store. Simply type in the category of the meme you are looking for and choose the subreddit you want to explore.
When looking for memes, subreddits such as r/memes or r/funny provide users with a wide range of the latest and most popular visuals.
What’s interesting about the Reddit community is that users can check out the top trending memes and register votes on meme predictions. This helps in determining the most popular ones that become viral.
Reddit has laid down 12 meme-posting rules that all members should abide by. This ensures the community is a friendly and safe space that does not threaten any member’s privacy.
Tenor is one of the best websites for memes, where users can get hold of thousands of GIFs. You can choose from the featured GIFs or look at the top trending Tenor searches displayed on the homepage.
The meme generator on the Tenor website is another handy feature. You can build a library of memes by cropping, editing, and captioning GIFs, stickers, and MP4s.
So if your style is more of a video meme i.e., a short video with a text message, Tenor is a perfect choice. You can create your own GIF and share your creation with millions on social media. Tenor also provides updates on how well your GIFs are performing in terms of search volume and share history.
Have an artistic streak and a good sense of humor? Imgflip is a great place to create and share memes and GIFs. Imgflip contains a database of meme templates that you can use to design your custom meme. You can upload memes on the website as “private” or share them with your friends and the Imgflip community.
Imgflip is more than just a meme generator website; it also serves as a community hub for meme lovers. They have a user-uploaded gallery and voting system along with their meme-generating tools.
When users create and upload their memes, other members of the community can vote on them. The most popular memes make their way to the homepage, where even more people can vote and share them. This creates a self-reinforcing cycle that showcases and rewards the most popular and humorous memes.
9GAG, also known as the “HQ of memes,” is one of the most popular websites for memes on the internet. It focuses entirely on the humor genre. You can search the website to find the fresh, trending, or highly-rated funniest memes on the web.
9GAG classifies memes through tags which you can browse on the homepage. The tagging feature makes searching convenient and helps you refine your search by letting you pick your favorite tag. The website uses this information to recommend awesome memes based on your interests and preferences.
9GAG is also a medium for news alerts. It uses memes and GIFs to share the latest news alerts. You can vote for your favorite post and share it on your preferred social media platform.
GIPHY is a website exclusively dedicated to GIF memes. It classifies all sorts of GIFs according to the subject of interest. Action, Gaming, Entertainment, and Reaction GIFs are a few of the most popular categories available on GIPHY.
GIPHY has made searching for relevant GIFs, memes, or stickers very convenient. You can narrow your search using the right keywords, hashtags, or even the username of the GIF creator.
GIPHY is the perfect place for any meme lover. In addition to thousands of memes, it gives users the ease of embedding the GIF link in their blog or sharing it on their chosen social media. You can also use GIPHY to create your own GIFs and stickers.
Know Your Meme
Know Your Meme is the ultimate solution for any meme lover. It uses wiki software to collect and document a variety of internet memes and other trending topics through images or videos.
You can browse through funny memes, upload memes of your own, and participate in forums of Meme Research.
The discussion threads can help refine your meme creation skills and develop content that will improve site traffic to your blog.
Memedroid has one of the most extensive collections of memes and GIFs available on the internet.
You can use the platform to find the latest and top trending memes or head over to random memes for a quick laugh.
The friendly website layout is an added bonus to using the website. It is easy to search for any meme you like, and the voting emoticons increase user engagement.
Every meme post on Memedroid has the relevant call-to-action icons of sharing and favoriting right in front. The handy chat icon and mobile app make Memedroid a great choice to head over for memes.
Imgur, also known as the “magic of the internet,” is another amazing meme website to search for the best meme.
The website interface and the handy search bar make Imgur a popular choice with its users. You can explore memes through tags placed right on top or search for the most viral meme or high-scoring meme.
Imgur is a dedicated meme website that focuses on making the search for memes easy. You can search for memes using filters such as keywords, tags, images, or usernames.
You can also use Imgur to create and upload memes. The meme maker has built-in templates to choose your favorite meme template, background, and text to design your custom meme.
Pinterest is a popular image-sharing website that acts as a visual discovery engine. Users can find ideas on various topics and pin them to a custom board. While people use this site to bookmark recipes, how-tos, and other bookmark-worthy content, it’s also one of the best websites for memes out there.
You can find thousands of memes on Pinterest. Just type in the meme you are looking for in the search bar and choose the one you want. You can save the ones you like on your board or follow the profiles of other meme uploaders.
All in all, Pinterest is a great place to start your meme journey. You can get inspiration for creating new memes and increase backlinks and site traffic to your blog.
Tumblr is a microblogging and social media platform where users can share content such as images, links, texts, memes, and GIFs.
You can search for different memes by using the relevant keywords and filtering them based on the latest and most popular memes. Tumblr also allows users to follow various tags and member accounts.
Through Tumblr, you can get inspired by the latest memes and create and post new memes. Members can create a private or public blog on Tumblr which can help to redirect traffic to their website.
Memebase is a meme center for thousands of popular memes. It categorizes memes based on popular themes and helps users save time and explore their favorite categories.
From puns to cringe, politics to video games, and webcomics to animal cuteness and comedy, you can search for any kind of memes you want, including dank memes.
Similar to Reddit, you can upvote or downvote memes and find the most popular weekly memes on your preferred topic.
How Do I Find Trending Memes?
There are a few ways to go about it if you want to find trending memes.
One popular method is to check social media platforms such as Twitter or Instagram, often hotbeds for the latest memes. You can use hashtags such as #memes, #funny, or #trendingmemes to help you find the most popular content.
Another way to find trending memes is through meme generator websites such as Imgflip, GIPHY, or Kapwing. These sites allow users to create and share their own memes, so you can browse through various popular and trending templates.
Additionally, many of these websites have a section dedicated to the latest and most popular memes, making it easy to keep up with current trends.
No matter which method you choose to find trending memes, it’s important to remember that the cycle of viral content moves quickly. What’s popular and trending one day may be forgotten the next, so it’s always a good idea to stay on top of current events and pop culture trends to ensure you don’t miss out on the latest memes.
The Bottom Line: Best Websites for Memes
Memes really do say it all, and sometimes with no more than one word. This phenomenon has taken the internet by storm and can be found in every corner of the web. From Reddit to Imgur, Memedroid to Tumblr, there’s no shortage of platforms offering memes for you to find or even create your own.
Not only do these websites for memes help you unwind after a long day, but they’re also great tools when it comes to creating content for your business. So go ahead and get meme-ing!
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