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The Art of Getting Booked: Mastering the Podcast Guesting Game

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The Art of Getting Booked: Mastering the Podcast Guesting Game

I didn’t think it was a big deal. We assumed these were typical results for those who focused and did the work.

The gaping mouths and the bulging eyes were our first clues. My next clue should have been when one podcaster told me he gets 50 to 100 pitches a week and he chose ours. Finally, reality set in like a bolt of lightning striking fifty feet in front of me. The words still rumble in my head like fading thunder echoing through the sky:

“I’ve never known anyone who booked 53 podcasts in two months.”Ryan Deiss

When Ryan said that from the stage at the M3 Mastermind, I finally realized my wife had done something extraordinary. This was no surprise.

She is an amazing woman. Anyone who read her CaringBridge journal in 2021 already knows that. TLDR: The doctors gave up on me and told her to “pull the plug.” She didn’t. She prevailed. I’m alive.

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Craig & Karen Andrews, December 2021

So, in March of 2023 I asked her to come to my rescue again. This time it was much lower stakes. I asked her to get me booked on podcasts.

Why Pursue Being a Podcast Guest?

Guesting on podcasts is a way to expand your own audience. According to ListenNotes, there are more than three million podcasts. The podcast hosts did the time consuming work of building their audience. And as a podcast guest, you get nearly effortless access to that audience.

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Guest interviews are a great way to build your authority. Almost every host launches the podcast episode talking about how awesome you are. Their audience trusts them… and now their audience – the podcast listeners – trust you.

Your guest podcast interview will drive business and opportunities. Our 90-day rolling pipeline report tells that story best. “FTO Deals”, our discovery call metric, is up 700% compared to the prior 90-days when we weren’t guesting on podcasts.

“FTOs Sold” means we closed a new client. That’s up 400% compared to the prior 90-days. And we expect that to rise further because most of the discovery calls haven’t happened yet.

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Fill your pipeline by being a podcast guest

Our podcast focus started within this 90-day view. Most of the podcast episodes are scheduled to go live in the next couple of months. And yet we’re seeing triple-digit 90-on-90 growth on our most important metrics.

Look closer and you’ll see another hidden nugget. Double-digit lead growth drove triple-digit opportunity and sales growth. That’s what authority does for you.

If you’re running out of ways to unleash an instant triple-digit firehose on your business, then read on. I’ll show you how we did it.

How to Get on a Podcast: How it Started

Be careful when you curse adversity in your life. If you let adversity be your mentor, it will rip the scales off your eyes and a world of new opportunities becomes crystal clear. And that’s what happened here.

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It began in November 2022 when NCR laid off my wife, Karen. We’re not upset with NCR. They’ve been wonderful to Karen. For the three months I was in the hospital, they let her work half-time while paying her full-time. But the layoff was a shock.

While Karen was trying to figure out her “next thing,” I asked her if she could get me booked on podcasts. She clearly knocked the cover off the ball and accidentally found her “next thing.”

Her first step was research. Why would a podcast host want me on their podcast? Podcast hosts receive tens or hundreds of pitches each week. They’re looking for their ideal podcast guests. So, the outreach email is key.

Create a Personalized Outreach Email for Each of the Podcast Hosts

Sorry, there are no shortcuts here. Automated mass outreach won’t get you guest appearances on any of the relevant podcasts.

I’ll break down one of Karen’s emails step-by-step so you can see the key elements.

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The Intro: Praise the Podcast Host for Their Mission

Praise the host for their mission. Connect with their “Why.” Go to their podcast page. They’ll almost certainly make their mission clear there. They’ll also help you identify their target audience. Make sure their target audience aligns with your target audience. Otherwise, you’re just wasting their time.

Here’s an example of Karen’s intro:

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Hi Roy,

My name is Karen and I work on behalf of Craig Andrews.  We have been listening to your podcast and love what you are doing!  

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Recognize and applaud the podcast host’s superpower

Make sure you get their name right!! Ryan Deiss said he gets outreach emails every week praising him for his interviews on the DigitalMarketer podcast. The problem is Ryan doesn’t do the podcast. Getting the host’s name wrong is the first clue that you’re doing spammy outreach.

Next, praise their mission. We could improve this outreach by being specific in praising the mission we see them fulfilling. That would probably boost our results further. But even this generic simplicity has been working. But that’s because of the next paragraph.

The Intro: Reference a Specific Podcast Episode and What Your Learned

This is the most time-consuming part of the process. And no, you can’t automate this.

A leading podcast host achieved their vaulted position by being selective in their podcast guests. So, your window of opportunity is through a few scarce words that communicate you’ll be a great podcast guest. And great podcast guests speak to their audience by knowing their audience.

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Reference a specific episode in your podcast outreach email

So, you need to listen to an episode. Make your outreach email reference:

  • A specific episode.
  • A specific guest.
  • A specific insight you got from that episode.

Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s outreach:

We recently listened to your podcast with Tom Sharp about Strategy Patterns for Business Growth.  We really appreciated his idea that you need to know yourself, your boundaries and your goals and doing the work to understand those goals.

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BOOM! Do that and you just distinguished yourself as a podcast guest that cared enough to actually listen to their podcast. You don’t have to listen to all the podcast interviews. One is enough.

Now you have their attention. Next you must prove you’ll bring the goods to serve their audience.

The Meat: Bring the Heat and Add Value to the Podcast Listeners

Bring something new to the table. You’re not going to get booked by pitching “How to Grow Your Business Using Facebook Ads.” That was fresh and relevant about a decade ago. But you may get booked with something more current like:

How you can overcome Facebook’s recent trend of reduced targeting with four carefully selected headline elements.

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Bring something that’s both unknown and valuable

In our case, we specialize in accelerating high-ticket sales. So, we wanted to find podcasts that had a podcast audience with people that fit that description.

In 2023, high-ticket businesses are struggling closing deals. So, our guest podcasting is focused on building irresistible First-Time Offers to overcome the tough economic conditions. This is a great message for podcast audiences that are struggling with sales. Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s email:

Craig has some fresh thoughts for our currently tough economy that he thought would benefit your audience.

He specializes in First-Time Offers that serve as a “coffee date” to begin an engagement with a potential customer.  Help before you sell!

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Again, our goal isn’t to be on all the podcasts – just the ones with our ideal customers. So, we want the message to enchant our perfect podcast hosts while repelling other podcasts that aren’t ideal.

Once you have them enchanted, next deal with their fear.

The Promise: Convince the Podcast Hosts You’re Not a Greedy Bastard

The podcast world is about giving – not taking. So, don’t be a greedy bastard.

Unfortunately, the world is oversupplied with shysters and takers. Your outreach email needs to quickly communicate that your guest appearance will focus on giving. Promise a free gift for the podcast host’s audience.

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Focus on serving and giving

Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s outreach:

He would love to offer a free gift to your audience as an additional way of adding value.  

When you do that, you quickly communicate that you understand the unwritten agreement. It demonstrates your giving nature in action. It also communicates you’ve done this for other podcasts – so you’re an expert guest and a giver. Win-win-win…

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But that’s not enough. You’ve got to bring more to the table.

The Sizzle: Promise to be an Interesting Podcast Guest

Beuller… Beuller… Beuller…

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Ben Stein brought humor to Ferris Bueller’s Day Off by being the most boring economics teacher on the planet. But let’s be honest… you’re no Ben Stein.

Unlike Ben Stein, you have not mastered the craft of being entertaining by being boring. The only way you’ll land on someone else’s podcast is by being interesting. Promise to tell a story. Look through your life and find interesting stories that tie into your core message.

Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s outreach:

A few interesting things about Craig:
He spent 6 years in the Marines.
He lived and studied in Japan.
He received a graduate degree in Electrical Engineering and later figured out he loved marketing.
In 2021, he spent 3 months in the hospital and woke up from a coma only able to wiggle a finger and a toe.  His recovery has been a miracle.

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Life gifted me with a white-knuckled story of narrowly escaping death. So, yes, I pimp the heck out of that story. But I’ve discovered that some podcast hosts really don’t care about my near early departure from this world.

Karen offers a variety of interesting life events so the podcast host can pick one that interests them most. Look through your life and find interesting stories that you can use to illustrate core elements of your message.

The Close: Bring the Social Proof

Top hosts want to know that you’ve been on other podcasts. Nobody wants to train you on being a great podcast guest. It may feel like podcast access is limited to those who’ve already been on a bunch of podcasts.

But every podcast guest started with their first podcast. Then they went on more podcasts and built social proof. That’s been the case with me. Here’s how Karen handles that:

Craig has presented at Conversion Conference, various Vistage groups and other podcasts.

Karen used what we had in our arsenal. Yes, I have been on two or three podcasts. In one case I was episode #3 on a podcast that shut down after the 4th episode. But that’s still social proof.

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Find someone who thinks you’re awesome and quote them

If you’re just starting out, get a testimonial from your mom. Hopefully she thinks you’re awesome. Figure out what group she’s involved in… like her neighborhood gardening group. Speak to them about something that interests them. Here’s what that review looks like:

Craig brought an amazing message to the East Peoria Gardening Club. Everyone was captivated by his stories of how rosemary represents the essential spice that should be a part of everyone’s garden of life.” – Mary Andrews, President of the East Peoria Gardening Club.

Get on one podcast and use that as social proof to get on bigger podcasts. Remember, you’re not alone. If you’re trying to break into the guest podcasting space, there are also many new podcast hosts trying to break into the space as well. You’re perfect for each other.

The Close: Give a Call-to-Action to be Their Next Podcast Guest

It’s easy to forget the Call-to-Action (CTA). Don’t let it be implicit. Actively call the host to action. We steal some wisdom from Chris Voss and structure our CTA to be a natural “No.”

Would it be a ridiculous idea to set up a call to see how he can meet the unique needs of your listeners?

Notice how the CTA brings the focus back on their audience instead of you. That reinforces the idea that you’ll bring value to their audience.

Other Things Podcast Guests Need to Consider

Of course there are other things you need to consider in addition to the outreach email. Maximize use of the podcast directories. I recommend you create a speaker page that includes speaking examples, your bio, head shots and other assets.

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Those are each a subject of their own. So, we’ll talk about those in other articles. But that doesn’t mean you should wait. Today is the time to begin your journey as a podcast guest.

Stop reading. Set your timer. Use the next 15-minutes to write your first draft of your podcast outreach email. You can perfect it later.

Put it to Work – Get Booked as a Guest

This journey began because I heard Lauren Petrullo proclaim her goal. She set out to get on 100 podcasts before the end of the year. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Neither did Karen. So, we set the same goal.

One of my favorite quotes is by General George S. Patton:

“A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.”

General Patton was the only allied commander that Field Marshal Rommel feared. Patton’s philosophy allowed him to make the impossible possible.

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If there’s any genius in what we’ve done it’s that we set a crazy goal and aggressively pursued it. We were so ignorant of podcasting that we didn’t realize how exceptional our results were until several folks told us. Now it’s your turn. Go and do the same.


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How To Combine PR and Content Marketing Superpowers To Achieve Business Goals

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A figure pulls open a dress shirt to reveal the term PR on a Superman-like costume, reflecting the superpower resulting from combining content and PR.

A transformative shift is happening, and it’s not AI.

The aisle between public relations and content marketing is rapidly narrowing. If you’re smart about the convergence, you can forever enhance your brand’s storytelling.

The goals and roles of content marketing and PR overlap more and more. The job descriptions look awfully similar. Shrinking budgets and a shrewd eye for efficiency mean you and your PR pals could face the chopping block if you don’t streamline operations and deliver on the company’s goals (because marketing communications is always first to be axed, right?).

Yikes. Let’s take a big, deep breath. This is not a threat. It’s an opportunity.

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Reach across the aisle to PR and streamline content creation, improve distribution strategies, and get back to the heart of what you both are meant to do: Build strong relationships and tell impactful stories.

So, before you panic-post that open-to-work banner on LinkedIn, consider these tips from content marketing, PR, and journalism pros who’ve figured out how to thrive in an increasingly narrowing content ecosystem.

1. See journalists as your audience

Savvy pros know the ability to tell an impactful story — and support it with publish-ready collateral — grounds successful media relationships. And as a content marketer, your skills in storytelling and connecting with audiences, including journalists, naturally support your PR pals’ media outreach.

Strategic storytelling creates content focused on what the audience needs and wants. Sharing content on your blog or social media builds relationships with journalists who source those channels for story ideas, event updates, and subject matter experts.

“Embedding PR strategies in your content marketing pieces informs your audience and can easily be picked up by media,” says Alex Sanchez, chief experience officer at BeWell, New Mexico’s Health Insurance Marketplace. “We have seen reporters do this many times, pulling stories from our blogs and putting them in the nightly news — most of the time without even reaching out to us.”

Acacia James, weekend producer/morning associate producer at WTOP radio in Washington, D.C., says blogs and social media posts are helpful to her work. “If I see a story idea, and I see that they’re willing to share information, it’s easier to contact them — and we can also backlink their content. It’s huge for us to be able to use every avenue.” 

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Kirby Winn, manager of PR at ImpactLife, says reporters and assignment editors are key consumers of their content. “And I don’t mean a news release that just hit their inbox. They’re going to our blog and consuming our stories, just like any other audience member,” he says. “Our organization has put more focus into content marketing in the past few years — it supports a media pitch so well and highlights the stories we have to tell.”

Storytelling attracts earned media that might not pick up the generic news topic. “It’s one thing to pitch a general story about how we help consumers sign up for low-cost health insurance,” Alex says. “Now, imagine a single mom who just got a plan after years of thinking it was too expensive. She had a terrible car accident, and the $60,000 ER bill that would have ruined her financially was covered. Now that’s a story journalists will want to cover, and that will be relatable to their audience and ours.” 

2. Learn the media outlet’s audience

Seventy-three percent of reporters say one-fourth or less of the stories pitched are relevant to their audiences, according to Cision’s 2023 State of the Media Report (registration required).

PR pros are known for building relationships with journalists, while content marketers thrive in building communities around content. Merge these best practices to build desirable content that works for your target audience and the media’s audiences simultaneously.

WTOP’s Acacia James says sources who show they’re ready to share helpful, relevant content often win pitches for coverage. “In radio, we do a lot of research on who is listening to us, and we’re focused on a prototype called ‘Mike and Jen’ — normal, everyday people in Generation X … So when we get press releases and pitches, we ask, ‘How interested will Mike and Jen be in this story?’” 

3. Deliver the full content package (and make journalists’ jobs easier)

Cranking out content to their media outlet’s standards has never been tougher for journalists. Newsrooms are significantly understaffed, and anything you can do to make their lives easier will be appreciated and potentially rewarded with coverage. Content marketers are built to think about all the elements to tell the story through multiple mediums and channels.

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“Today’s content marketing pretty much provides a package to the media outlet,” says So Young Pak, director of media relations at MedStar Washington Hospital Center. “PR is doing a lot of storytelling work in advance of media publication. We (and content marketing) work together to provide the elements to go with each story — photos, subject matter experts, patients, videos, and data points, if needed.”   

At WTOP, the successful content package includes audio. “As a radio station, we are focused on high-quality sound,” Acacia James says. “Savvy sources know to record and send us voice memos, and then we pull cuts from the audio … You will naturally want to do someone a favor if they did you one — like providing helpful soundbites, audio, and newsworthy stories.”  

While production value matters to some media, you shouldn’t stress about it. “In the past decade, how we work with reporters has changed. Back in the day, if they couldn’t be there in person, they weren’t going to interview your expert,” says Jason Carlton, an accredited PR professional and manager of marketing and communications at Intermountain Health. “During COVID, we had to switch to virtual interviewing. Now, many journalists are OK with running a Teams or Zoom interview they’ve done with an expert on the news.”

BeWell’s Alex Sanchez agrees. “I’ve heard old school PR folks cringe at the idea of putting up a Zoom video instead of getting traditional video interviews. It doesn’t really matter to consumers. Focus on the story, on the timeliness, and the relevance. Consumers want authenticity, not super stylized, stiff content.”

4. Unite great minds to maximize efficiency

Everyone needs to set aside the debate about which team — PR or content marketing — gets credit for the resulting media coverage.

At MedStar Washington Hospital Center, So Young and colleagues adopt a collaborative mindset on multichannel stories. “We can get the interview and gather information for all the different pieces — blog, audio, video, press release, internal newsletter, or magazine. That way, we’re not trying to figure things out individually, and the subject matter experts only have to have that conversation once,” she says.

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Regular, cross-team meetings are essential to understand the best channels for reaching key audiences, including the media. A story that began life as a press release might reap SEO and earned media gold if it’s strategized as a blog, video, and media pitch.

“At Intermountain Health, we have individual teams for media relations, marketing, social media, and hospital communications. That setup works well because it allows us to bring in the people who are the given experts in those areas,” says Intermountain’s Jason Carlton. “Together, we decide if a story is best for the blog, a media pitch, or a mix of channels — that way, we avoid duplicating work and the risk of diluting the story’s impact.”

5. Measure what matters

Cutting through the noise to earn media mentions requires keen attention to metrics. Since content marketing and PR metrics overlap, synthesizing the data in your team meetings can save time while streamlining your storytelling efforts.

“For content marketers, using analytical tools such as GA4 can help measure the effectiveness of their content campaigns and landing pages to determine meaningful KPIs such as organic traffic, keyword rankings, lead generation, and conversion rates,” says John Martino, director of digital marketing for Visiting Angels. “PR teams can use media coverage and social interactions to assess user engagement and brand awareness. A unified and omnichannel approach can help both teams demonstrate their value in enhancing brand visibility, engagement, and overall business success.”

To track your shared goals, launch a shared dashboard that helps tell the combined “story of your stories” to internal and executive teams. Among the metrics to monitor:

  • Page views: Obviously, this queen of metrics continues to be important across PR and content marketing. Take your analysis to the next level by evaluating which niche audiences are contributing to these views to further hone your storytelling targets, including media outlets.
  • Earned media mentions: Through a media tracker service or good old Google Alerts, you can tally the echo of your content marketing and PR. Look at your site’s referral traffic report to identify media outlets that send traffic to your blog or other web pages.
  • Organic search queries: Dive into your analytics platform to surface organic search queries that lead to visitors. Build from those questions to develop stories that further resonate with your audience and your targeted media.
  • On-page actions: When visitors show up on your content, what are they doing? What do they click? Where do they go next? Building next-step pathways is your bread and butter in content marketing — and PR can use them as a natural pipeline for media to pick up more stories, angles, and quotes.

But perhaps the biggest metric to track is team satisfaction. Who on the collaborative team had the most fun writing blogs, producing videos, or calling the news stations? Lean into the natural skills and passions of your team members to distribute work properly, maximize the team output, and improve relationships with the media, your audience, and internal teams.

“It’s really trying to understand the problem to solve — the needle to move — and determining a plan that will help them achieve their goal,” Jason says. “If you don’t have those measurable objectives, you’re not going to know whether you made a difference.”

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Don’t fear the merger

Whether you deliberately work together or not, content marketing and public relations are tied together. ImpactLife’s Kirby Winn explains, “As soon as we begin to talk about (ourselves) to a reporter who doesn’t know us, they are certainly going to check out our stories.”

But consciously uniting PR and content marketing will ease the challenges you both face. Working together allows you to save time, eliminate duplicate work, and gain free time to tell more stories and drive them into impactful media placements.

Register to attend Content Marketing World in San Diego. Use the code BLOG100 to save $100. Can’t attend in person this year? Check out the Digital Pass for access to on-demand session recordings from the live event through the end of the year.

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Cover image by Joseph Kalinowski/Content Marketing Institute

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Trends in Content Localization – Moz

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Trends in Content Localization - Moz

Multinational fast food chains are one of the best-known examples of recognizing that product menus may sometimes have to change significantly to serve distinct audiences. The above video is just a short run-through of the same business selling smokehouse burgers, kofta, paneer, and rice bowls in an effort to appeal to people in a variety of places. I can’t personally judge the validity of these representations, but what I can see is that, in such cases, you don’t merely localize your content but the products on which your content is founded.

Sometimes, even the branding of businesses is different around the world; what we call Burger King in America is Hungry Jack’s in Australia, Lays potato chips here are Sabritas in Mexico, and DiGiorno frozen pizza is familiar in the US, but Canada knows it as Delissio.

Tales of product tailoring failures often become famous, likely because some of them may seem humorous from a distance, but cultural sensitivity should always be taken seriously. If a brand you are marketing is on its way to becoming a large global seller, the best insurance against reputation damage and revenue loss as a result of cultural insensitivity is to employ regional and cultural experts whose first-hand and lived experiences can steward the organization in acting with awareness and respect.

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How AI Is Redefining Startup GTM Strategy

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How AI Is Redefining Startup GTM Strategy

AI and startups? It just makes sense.

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