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Why marketers have a love-hate relationship with complexity

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Henk-jan ter Brugge is director, global digital marketing and e-commerce for consumer- and healthcare-tech giant Philips in Amsterdam. We caught up with him about his experience with marketing and technology.

So how did you wind up in marketing? What brought you to where you are today

I didn’t specifically study marketing, but I see people of all backgrounds and trades in marketing nowadays. So, I’m not a classical marketeer as a lot of graduates think of it.

I started at a startup, but seven years ago I started working for Philips and I started in the global digital team. Then I worked for six months in the Chinese market in Shanghai. Then I worked in new business development. So, really to sell a solution of Philips in the market. And that’s basically where my interest started for digital marketing and everything around it. 


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What happened?

I saw I couldn’t do my job as I wanted to do. I wanted to make a simple website. [I couldn’t] partly because I was relatively young starting in the big company. I just didn’t know how the company worked, right? But partly the ways [to do that] were not yet in place at that time, but that has improved significantly as they say.

[After that] I moved back to the global digital marketing commerce team. And I really got a love for the backbone of marketing. It has been a good choice so far. I get a lot of energy from it … I love the newness. I love the complexity, which is something you like but also hate. 

Why is that?

With a lot of big companies, they almost show off with all the technology they have and I don’t think it’s something per se to show off with. Less technology can be better, depending on whether you take it from a global or local market perspective. 

Complexity means a lot and it means nothing. It’s making sense of that complexity that matters. Getting understanding from the data you have, getting the right teams behind it, letting teams understand the value of the technology. Doing that means not putting technology first, but putting the use case first, what you deliver with it. 


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By managing that complexity you learn about the complete marketing chain. And now it’s not only marketing anymore. It’s marketing with e-commerce, and e-commerce becomes the sales channel, right? It’s change management. It’s education. It’s working with the IT teams, with the whole organization basically. And you’re the spider in the web and that’s the beauty of the job I have.

[It’s] managing that complexity by bringing IT or tech closer to the business and vice versa, where they can immensely impact each other. Getting more people on board with how technology can help in all that. But also the understanding of having the right people, the right ways of working, of really getting that enterprise mindset. 

Is there something that you can’t do that you wish you could? 

Often what you see, especially in the big corporations, is that you don’t have all the information. and there are some functions that have a bit more information than others. Because of that, sometimes you have a meeting, you talk different languages. You think you understand each other, but you don’t. I wish that was something we could connect in the company to make sure that everybody talks the same language.

Read next: Data and confused: The increasing complexity of digital ad targeting


About The Author

App users visit brick and mortar 41 more often thanApp users visit brick and mortar 41 more often than
Constantine von Hoffman is managing editor of MarTech. A veteran journalist, Con has covered business, finance, marketing and tech for CBSNews.com, Brandweek, CMO, and Inc. He has been city editor of the Boston Herald, news producer at NPR, and has written for Harvard Business Review, Boston Magazine, Sierra, and many other publications. He has also been a professional stand-up comedian, given talks at anime and gaming conventions on everything from My Neighbor Totoro to the history of dice and boardgames, and is author of the magical realist novel John Henry the Revelator. He lives in Boston with his wife, Jennifer, and either too many or too few dogs.

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Google’s Surgical Strike on Reputation Abuse

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Google’s Surgical Strike on Reputation Abuse

These aren’t easy questions. On the one hand, many of these sites do clearly fit Google’s warning and were using their authority and reputation to rank content that is low-relevance to the main site and its visitors. With any punitive action, though, the problem is that the sites ranking below the penalized sites may not be of any higher quality. Is USA Today’s coupon section less useful than the dedicated coupon sites that will take its place from the perspective of searchers? Probably not, especially since the data comes from similar sources.

There is a legitimate question of trust here — searchers are more likely to trust this content if it’s attached to a major brand. If a site is hosting third-party content, such as a coupon marketplace, then they’re essentially lending their brand and credibility to content that they haven’t vetted. This could be seen as an abuse of trust.

In Google’s eyes, I suspect the problem is that this tactic has just spread too far, and they couldn’t continue to ignore it. Unfortunately for the sites that were hit, the penalties were severe and wiped out impacted content. Regardless of how we feel about the outcome, this was not an empty threat, and SEOs need to take Google’s new guidelines seriously.

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18 Events and Conferences for Black Entrepreneurs in 2024

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18 Events and Conferences for Black Entrepreneurs in 2024

Welcome to Breaking the Blueprint — a blog series that dives into the unique business challenges and opportunities of underrepresented business owners and entrepreneurs. Learn how they’ve grown or scaled their businesses, explored entrepreneurial ventures within their companies, or created side hustles, and how their stories can inspire and inform your own success.

It can feel isolating if you’re the only one in the room who looks like you.

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IAB Podcast Upfront highlights rebounding audiences and increased innovation

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IAB podcast upfronts in New York

IAB podcast upfronts in New York
Left to right: Hosts Charlamagne tha God and Jess Hilarious, Will Pearson, President, iHeartPodcasts and Conal Byrne, CEO, iHeartMedia Digital Group in New York. Image: Chris Wood.

Podcasts are bouncing back from last year’s slowdown with digital audio publishers, tech partners and brands innovating to build deep relationships with listeners.

At the IAB Podcast Upfront in New York this week, hit shows and successful brand placements were lauded. In addition to the excitement generated by stars like Jon Stewart and Charlamagne tha God, the numbers gauging the industry also showed promise.

U.S. podcast revenue is expected to grow 12% to reach $2 billion — up from 5% growth last year — according to a new IAB/PwC study. Podcasts are projected to reach $2.6 billion by 2026.

The growth is fueled by engaging content and the ability to measure its impact. Adtech is stepping in to measure, prove return on spend and manage brand safety in gripping, sometimes contentious, environments.

“As audio continues to evolve and gain traction, you can expect to hear new innovations around data, measurement, attribution and, crucially, about the ability to assess podcasting’s contribution to KPIs in comparison to other channels in the media mix,” said IAB CEO David Cohen, in his opening remarks.

Comedy and sports leading the way

Podcasting’s slowed growth in 2023 was indicative of lower ad budgets overall as advertisers braced for economic headwinds, according to Matt Shapo, director, Media Center for IAB, in his keynote. The drought is largely over. Data from media analytics firm Guideline found podcast gross media spend up 21.7% in Q1 2024 over Q1 2023. Monthly U.S. podcast listeners now number 135 million, averaging 8.3 podcast episodes per week, according to Edison Research.

Comedy overtook sports and news to become the top podcast category, according to the new IAB report, “U.S. Podcast Advertising Revenue Study: 2023 Revenue & 2024-2026 Growth Projects.” Comedy podcasts gained nearly 300 new advertisers in Q4 2023.

Sports defended second place among popular genres in the report. Announcements from the stage largely followed these preferences.

Jon Stewart, who recently returned to “The Daily Show” to host Mondays, announced a new podcast, “The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart,” via video message at the Upfront. The podcast will start next month and is part of Paramount Audio’s roster, which has a strong sports lineup thanks to its association with CBS Sports.

Reaching underserved groups and tastes

IHeartMedia toasted its partnership with radio and TV host Charlamagne tha God. Charlamagne’s The Black Effect is the largest podcast network in the U.S. for and by black creators. Comedian Jess Hilarious spoke about becoming the newest co-host of the long-running “The Breakfast Club” earlier this year, and doing it while pregnant.

The company also announced a new partnership with Hello Sunshine, a media company founded by Oscar-winner Reese Witherspoon. One resulting podcast, “The Bright Side,” is hosted by journalists Danielle Robay and Simone Boyce. The inspiration for the show was to tell positive stories as a counterweight to negativity in the culture.

With such a large population listening to podcasts, advertisers can now benefit from reaching specific groups catered to by fine-tuned creators and topics. As the top U.S. audio network, iHeartMedia touted its reach of 276 million broadcast listeners. 

Connecting advertisers with the right audience

Through its acquisition of technology, including audio adtech company Triton Digital in 2021, as well as data partnerships, iHeartMedia claims a targetable audience of 34 million podcast listeners through its podcast network, and a broader audio audience of 226 million for advertisers, using first- and third-party data.

“A more diverse audience is tuning in, creating more opportunities for more genres to reach consumers — from true crime to business to history to science and culture, there is content for everyone,” Cohen said.

The IAB study found that the top individual advertiser categories in 2023 were Arts, Entertainment and Media (14%), Financial Services (13%), CPG (12%) and Retail (11%). The largest segment of advertisers was Other (27%), which means many podcast advertisers have distinct products and services and are looking to connect with similarly personalized content.

Acast, the top global podcast network, founded in Stockholm a decade ago, boasts 125,000 shows and 400 million monthly listeners. The company acquired podcast database Podchaser in 2022 to gain insights on 4.5 million podcasts (at the time) with over 1.7 billion data points.

Measurement and brand safety

Technology is catching up to the sheer volume of content in the digital audio space. Measurement company Adelaide developed its standard unit of attention, the AU, to predict how effective ad placements will be in an “apples to apples” way across channels. This method is used by The Coca-Cola Company, NBA and AB InBev, among other big advertisers.

In a study with National Public Media, which includes NPR radio and popular podcasts like the “Tiny Desk” concert series, Adelaide found that NPR, on average, scored 10% higher than Adelaide’s Podcast AU Benchmarks, correlating to full-funnel outcomes. NPR listeners weren’t just clicking through to advertisers’ sites, they were considering making a purchase.

Advertisers can also get deep insights on ad effectiveness through Wondery’s premium podcasts — the company was acquired by Amazon in 2020. Ads on its podcasts can now be managed through the Amazon DSP, and measurement of purchases resulting from ads will soon be available.

The podcast landscape is growing rapidly, and advertisers are understandably concerned about involving their brands with potentially controversial content. AI company Seekr develops large language models (LLMs) to analyze online content, including the context around what’s being said on a podcast. It offers a civility rating that determines if a podcast mentioning “shootings,” for instance, is speaking responsibly and civilly about the topic. In doing so, Seekr adds a layer of confidence for advertisers who would otherwise pass over an opportunity to reach an engaged audience on a topic that means a lot to them. Seekr recently partnered with ad agency Oxford Road to bring more confidence to clients.

“When we move beyond the top 100 podcasts, it becomes infinitely more challenging for these long tails of podcasts to be discovered and monetized,” said Pat LaCroix, EVP, strategic partnerships at Seekr. “Media has a trust problem. We’re living in a time of content fragmentation, political polarization and misinformation. This is all leading to a complex and challenging environment for brands to navigate, especially in a channel where brand safety tools have been in the infancy stage.”



Dig deeper: 10 top marketing podcasts for 2024

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