We’ve heard much about how generative AI is set to change digital marketing over the last few months. As consultants, we work with brands to harness technology for innovative marketing. We quickly delved into the potential of ChatGPT, the most buzzworthy large language model-based chatbot on the block. Now, we see how generative AI can act as an assistant by generating initial drafts of code and visualizations, which our experts refine into usable materials.

In our view, the key to a successful generative AI project is for the end user to have a clear expectation for the final output so any AI-generated materials can be edited and shaped. The first principle of using generative AI is you should not trust it to provide completely correct answers to your queries.

ChatGPT answered just 12 of 42 GA4 questions right

We decided to put ChatGPT to the test on something our consultants do regularly — answering common client questions about GA4. The results were not that impressive: Out of the 42 questions we asked, ChatGPT only provided 12 answers we’d deem acceptable and send on to our clients, a success rate of just 29%.

A further eight answers (19%) were “semi-correct.” These either misinterpreted the question and provided a different answer to what was asked (although factually correct) or had a small amount of misinformation in an otherwise correct response.

For example, ChatGPT told us that the “Other” row you find in some GA4 reports is a grouping of many rows of low-volume data (correct) but that the instances when this occurs are defined by “Google machine learning algorithms.” This is incorrect. There are standard rules in place to define this.

Dig deeper: Artificial Intelligence: A beginner’s guide

Limitations of ChatGPT’s knowledge — and it’s overconfidence

The remaining 52% of answers were factually incorrect and, in some cases, actively misleading. The most common reason is that ChatGPT does not use training data beyond 2021, so many recent updates are not factored into its answers. 

For example, Google only officially announced the deprecation of Universal Analytics in 2022, so ChatGPT couldn’t say when this would be. In this instance, the bot did at least caveat its answer with this context, leading with “…as to my knowledge cut off is in 2021…”

However, some remaining questions were wrongly answered with a worrying amount of confidence. Such as the bot telling us that “GA4 uses a machine learning-based approach to track events and can automatically identify purchase events based on the data it collects.”  

While GA4 does have auto-tracked “enhanced measurement” events, these are generally defined by listening to simple code within a webpage’s metadata rather than through any machine learning or statistical model. Furthermore, purchase events are certainly not within the scope of enhanced measurement.

As demonstrated in our GA4 test, the limited “knowledge” held within ChatGPT makes it an unreliable source of facts. But it remains a very efficient assistant, providing first drafts of analyses and code for an expert to cut the time required for tasks. 

It cannot replace the role of a knowledgeable analyst who knows the type of output they are expecting to see. Instead, time can be saved by instructing ChatGPT to produce analyses from sample data without heavy programming. From this, you can obtain a close approximation in seconds and instruct ChatGPT to modify its output or manipulate it yourself.

For example, we recently used ChatGPT to analyze and optimize a retailer’s shopping baskets. We wanted to analyze average basket sizes and understand the optimal size to offer free shipping to customers. This required a routine analysis of the distribution of revenue and margin and an understanding of variance over time. 

We instructed ChatGPT to review how basket sizes varied over 14 months using a GA4 dataset. We then suggested some initial SQL queries for further analysis within BigQuery and some data visualization options for the insights it found.

While the options were imperfect, they offered useful areas for further exploration. Our analyst adapted the queries from ChatGPT to finalize the output. This reduced the time for a senior analyst working with junior support to create the output from roughly three days to one day.

Dig deeper: 3 steps to make AI work for you

Automating manual tasks and saving time

Another example is using it to automate more manual tasks within a given process, such as quality assurance checks for a data table or a piece of code that has been produced. This is a core aspect of any project, and flagging discrepancies or anomalies can often be laborious.

However, using ChatGPT to validate a 500+ row piece of code to combine and process multiple datasets — ensuring they are error-free — can be a huge time saver. In this scenario, what would normally have taken two hours for someone to manually review themselves could now be achieved within 30 minutes. 

Final QA checks still need to be performed by an expert, and the quality of ChatGPT’s output is highly dependent on the specific parameters you set in your instructions. However, a task that has very clear parameters and has no ambiguity in the output (the numbers either match or don’t) is ideal for generative AI to handle most of the heavy lifting. 

Treat generative AI like an assistant rather than an expert

The progress made by ChatGPT in recent months is remarkable. Simply put, we can now use conversational English to request highly technical materials that can be used for the widest range of tasks across programming, communication and visualization.

As we’ve demonstrated above, the outputs from these tools need to be treated with care and expert judgment to make them valuable. A good use case is driving efficiencies in building analyses in our everyday work or speeding up lengthy, complex tasks that would normally be done manually. We treat the outputs skeptically and use our technical knowledge to hone them into value-adding materials for our clients.

While generative AI, exemplified by ChatGPT, has shown immense potential in revolutionizing various aspects of our digital workflows, it is crucial to approach its applications with a balanced perspective. There are limitations in accuracy, particularly concerning recent updates and nuanced details. 

However, as the technology matures, the potential will grow for AI to be used as a tool to augment our capabilities and drive efficiencies in our everyday work. I think we should focus less on generative AI replacing the expert and more on how it can improve our productivity.

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I didn’t think it was a big deal. We assumed these were typical results for those who focused and did the work.

The gaping mouths and the bulging eyes were our first clues. My next clue should have been when one podcaster told me he gets 50 to 100 pitches a week and he chose ours. Finally, reality set in like a bolt of lightning striking fifty feet in front of me. The words still rumble in my head like fading thunder echoing through the sky:

“I’ve never known anyone who booked 53 podcasts in two months.” – Ryan Deiss

When Ryan said that from the stage at the M3 Mastermind, I finally realized my wife had done something extraordinary. This was no surprise.

She is an amazing woman. Anyone who read her CaringBridge journal in 2021 already knows that. TLDR: The doctors gave up on me and told her to “pull the plug.” She didn’t. She prevailed. I’m alive.

So, in March of 2023 I asked her to come to my rescue again. This time it was much lower stakes. I asked her to get me booked on podcasts.

Why Pursue Being a Podcast Guest?

Guesting on podcasts is a way to expand your own audience. According to ListenNotes, there are more than three million podcasts. The podcast hosts did the time consuming work of building their audience. And as a podcast guest, you get nearly effortless access to that audience.

Guest interviews are a great way to build your authority. Almost every host launches the podcast episode talking about how awesome you are. Their audience trusts them… and now their audience – the podcast listeners – trust you.

Your guest podcast interview will drive business and opportunities. Our 90-day rolling pipeline report tells that story best. “FTO Deals”, our discovery call metric, is up 700% compared to the prior 90-days when we weren’t guesting on podcasts.

“FTOs Sold” means we closed a new client. That’s up 400% compared to the prior 90-days. And we expect that to rise further because most of the discovery calls haven’t happened yet.

Our podcast focus started within this 90-day view. Most of the podcast episodes are scheduled to go live in the next couple of months. And yet we’re seeing triple-digit 90-on-90 growth on our most important metrics.

Look closer and you’ll see another hidden nugget. Double-digit lead growth drove triple-digit opportunity and sales growth. That’s what authority does for you.

If you’re running out of ways to unleash an instant triple-digit firehose on your business, then read on. I’ll show you how we did it.

How to Get on a Podcast: How it Started

Be careful when you curse adversity in your life. If you let adversity be your mentor, it will rip the scales off your eyes and a world of new opportunities becomes crystal clear. And that’s what happened here.

It began in November 2022 when NCR laid off my wife, Karen. We’re not upset with NCR. They’ve been wonderful to Karen. For the three months I was in the hospital, they let her work half-time while paying her full-time. But the layoff was a shock.

While Karen was trying to figure out her “next thing,” I asked her if she could get me booked on podcasts. She clearly knocked the cover off the ball and accidentally found her “next thing.”

Her first step was research. Why would a podcast host want me on their podcast? Podcast hosts receive tens or hundreds of pitches each week. They’re looking for their ideal podcast guests. So, the outreach email is key.

Create a Personalized Outreach Email for Each of the Podcast Hosts

Sorry, there are no shortcuts here. Automated mass outreach won’t get you guest appearances on any of the relevant podcasts.

I’ll break down one of Karen’s emails step-by-step so you can see the key elements.

The Intro: Praise the Podcast Host for Their Mission

Praise the host for their mission. Connect with their “Why.” Go to their podcast page. They’ll almost certainly make their mission clear there. They’ll also help you identify their target audience. Make sure their target audience aligns with your target audience. Otherwise, you’re just wasting their time.

Here’s an example of Karen’s intro:

Hi Roy,

My name is Karen and I work on behalf of Craig Andrews.  We have been listening to your podcast and love what you are doing!  

Make sure you get their name right!! Ryan Deiss said he gets outreach emails every week praising him for his interviews on the DigitalMarketer podcast. The problem is Ryan doesn’t do the podcast. Getting the host’s name wrong is the first clue that you’re doing spammy outreach.

Next, praise their mission. We could improve this outreach by being specific in praising the mission we see them fulfilling. That would probably boost our results further. But even this generic simplicity has been working. But that’s because of the next paragraph.

The Intro: Reference a Specific Podcast Episode and What Your Learned

This is the most time-consuming part of the process. And no, you can’t automate this.

A leading podcast host achieved their vaulted position by being selective in their podcast guests. So, your window of opportunity is through a few scarce words that communicate you’ll be a great podcast guest. And great podcast guests speak to their audience by knowing their audience.

So, you need to listen to an episode. Make your outreach email reference:

• A specific episode.
• A specific guest.
• A specific insight you got from that episode.

Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s outreach:

We recently listened to your podcast with Tom Sharp about Strategy Patterns for Business Growth.  We really appreciated his idea that you need to know yourself, your boundaries and your goals and doing the work to understand those goals.

BOOM! Do that and you just distinguished yourself as a podcast guest that cared enough to actually listen to their podcast. You don’t have to listen to all the podcast interviews. One is enough.

Now you have their attention. Next you must prove you’ll bring the goods to serve their audience.

The Meat: Bring the Heat and Add Value to the Podcast Listeners

Bring something new to the table. You’re not going to get booked by pitching “How to Grow Your Business Using Facebook Ads.” That was fresh and relevant about a decade ago. But you may get booked with something more current like:

How you can overcome Facebook’s recent trend of reduced targeting with four carefully selected headline elements.

In our case, we specialize in accelerating high-ticket sales. So, we wanted to find podcasts that had a podcast audience with people that fit that description.

In 2023, high-ticket businesses are struggling closing deals. So, our guest podcasting is focused on building irresistible First-Time Offers to overcome the tough economic conditions. This is a great message for podcast audiences that are struggling with sales. Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s email:

Craig has some fresh thoughts for our currently tough economy that he thought would benefit your audience.

He specializes in First-Time Offers that serve as a “coffee date” to begin an engagement with a potential customer.  Help before you sell!

Again, our goal isn’t to be on all the podcasts – just the ones with our ideal customers. So, we want the message to enchant our perfect podcast hosts while repelling other podcasts that aren’t ideal.

Once you have them enchanted, next deal with their fear.

The Promise: Convince the Podcast Hosts You’re Not a Greedy Bastard

The podcast world is about giving – not taking. So, don’t be a greedy bastard.

Unfortunately, the world is oversupplied with shysters and takers. Your outreach email needs to quickly communicate that your guest appearance will focus on giving. Promise a free gift for the podcast host’s audience.

Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s outreach:

He would love to offer a free gift to your audience as an additional way of adding value.  

When you do that, you quickly communicate that you understand the unwritten agreement. It demonstrates your giving nature in action. It also communicates you’ve done this for other podcasts – so you’re an expert guest and a giver. Win-win-win…

But that’s not enough. You’ve got to bring more to the table.

The Sizzle: Promise to be an Interesting Podcast Guest

Beuller… Beuller… Beuller…

Ben Stein brought humor to Ferris Bueller’s Day Off by being the most boring economics teacher on the planet. But let’s be honest… you’re no Ben Stein.

Unlike Ben Stein, you have not mastered the craft of being entertaining by being boring. The only way you’ll land on someone else’s podcast is by being interesting. Promise to tell a story. Look through your life and find interesting stories that tie into your core message.

Here’s what that looks like in Karen’s outreach:

A few interesting things about Craig:
He spent 6 years in the Marines.
He lived and studied in Japan.
He received a graduate degree in Electrical Engineering and later figured out he loved marketing.
In 2021, he spent 3 months in the hospital and woke up from a coma only able to wiggle a finger and a toe.  His recovery has been a miracle.

Life gifted me with a white-knuckled story of narrowly escaping death. So, yes, I pimp the heck out of that story. But I’ve discovered that some podcast hosts really don’t care about my near early departure from this world.

Karen offers a variety of interesting life events so the podcast host can pick one that interests them most. Look through your life and find interesting stories that you can use to illustrate core elements of your message.

The Close: Bring the Social Proof

Top hosts want to know that you’ve been on other podcasts. Nobody wants to train you on being a great podcast guest. It may feel like podcast access is limited to those who’ve already been on a bunch of podcasts.

But every podcast guest started with their first podcast. Then they went on more podcasts and built social proof. That’s been the case with me. Here’s how Karen handles that:

Craig has presented at Conversion Conference, various Vistage groups and other podcasts.

Karen used what we had in our arsenal. Yes, I have been on two or three podcasts. In one case I was episode #3 on a podcast that shut down after the 4th episode. But that’s still social proof.

If you’re just starting out, get a testimonial from your mom. Hopefully she thinks you’re awesome. Figure out what group she’s involved in… like her neighborhood gardening group. Speak to them about something that interests them. Here’s what that review looks like:

Craig brought an amazing message to the East Peoria Gardening Club. Everyone was captivated by his stories of how rosemary represents the essential spice that should be a part of everyone’s garden of life.” – Mary Andrews, President of the East Peoria Gardening Club.

Get on one podcast and use that as social proof to get on bigger podcasts. Remember, you’re not alone. If you’re trying to break into the guest podcasting space, there are also many new podcast hosts trying to break into the space as well. You’re perfect for each other.

The Close: Give a Call-to-Action to be Their Next Podcast Guest

It’s easy to forget the Call-to-Action (CTA). Don’t let it be implicit. Actively call the host to action. We steal some wisdom from Chris Voss and structure our CTA to be a natural “No.”

Would it be a ridiculous idea to set up a call to see how he can meet the unique needs of your listeners?

Notice how the CTA brings the focus back on their audience instead of you. That reinforces the idea that you’ll bring value to their audience.

Other Things Podcast Guests Need to Consider

Of course there are other things you need to consider in addition to the outreach email. Maximize use of the podcast directories. I recommend you create a speaker page that includes speaking examples, your bio, head shots and other assets.

Those are each a subject of their own. So, we’ll talk about those in other articles. But that doesn’t mean you should wait. Today is the time to begin your journey as a podcast guest.

Stop reading. Set your timer. Use the next 15-minutes to write your first draft of your podcast outreach email. You can perfect it later.

Put it to Work – Get Booked as a Guest

This journey began because I heard Lauren Petrullo proclaim her goal. She set out to get on 100 podcasts before the end of the year. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Neither did Karen. So, we set the same goal.

One of my favorite quotes is by General George S. Patton:

“A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.”

General Patton was the only allied commander that Field Marshal Rommel feared. Patton’s philosophy allowed him to make the impossible possible.

If there’s any genius in what we’ve done it’s that we set a crazy goal and aggressively pursued it. We were so ignorant of podcasting that we didn’t realize how exceptional our results were until several folks told us. Now it’s your turn. Go and do the same.

Tinuiti Live 2023 was jam packed with thoughtful keynotes, engaging networking opportunities, and practical fireside chats. This year’s sessions challenged us to question our way to clarity and there’s no better way to do just that than with an insightful Q&A.

Elizabeth Marsten, VP of Commerce Media Strategic Services at Tinuiti sat down with David DeRobbio, Partnerships from Instacart and Max Rudy, Director of E-commerce from Wild Planet Foods to chat about all things Instacart during their Tinuiti Live breakout session. Wild Planet Foods is a sustainability-driven canned seafood brand – whose vision is to transform fishing into a force for good. Tin fish is experiencing a renaissance these days and Wild Planet was on a mission to take on its competitors, the whales of tinned fish, with the help of both Tinuiti and Instacart. 

To kick off the session, Marsten asked Rudy why he was interested in joining the team at Wild Planet, and at first, many of us were surprised to find out that he wasn’t…

“I was not originally interested in working for a tin fish company due to environmental concerns, etc. but when Wild Planet shared their story and mission, I had a change of heart. Not only is this a better tasting product, but it is doing everything right in the sustainability area to try to be a net positive solution.” 

—  Max Rudy, Director of E-commerce from Wild Planet Foods

 

Wild Planet is the first large-scale sustainably focused seafood company. This is a cause that is integral to the brand and they are successfully showcasing their mission throughout their content and are inspiring consumers to make thoughtful purchases. Wild Planet is currently stealing market share from bigger brands and their strategy on Instacart has played a huge role in that, but Rudy shared with attendees how that wasn’t always the case… 

“When I first started with Wild Planet, my Instacart representative said that we were the only brand eligible for a coupon for free ad space because we were the only ones not spending on Instacart.” 

 

And while they certainly weren’t the first on Instacart, the brand has come a long way since… 

 

“We started our relationship with Tinuiti and within our first quarter, Instacart has become by far our best practice and our driving force of retail media.”

—  Max Rudy, Director of E-commerce from Wild Planet Foods

 

Wild planet didn’t have any funds allocated to Instacart advertising last year, but noted that, “you’re doing business on Instacart whether you take care of it or not, that’s why it’s important to treat Instacart like a customer. Your ability to utilize the tool set gives brands the ability to really democratize the shelf and be able to compete with really big players.”

During the discussion, it was acknowledged that retailers are inherently brick and mortar establishments and that transitioning into a digital company overnight is not a feasible option for many stores. But with the help of Instacart, grocery stores can make a seamless transition into the digital landscape.

“Instacart is a great opportunity for challenger brands to get that virtual shelf space that they might not necessarily get in a traditional brick and mortar experience.”

—  David DeRobbio, Partnerships from Instacart

 

DeRobbio explained how Instacart provides brands with a level playing field with the tools they offer. He described that no matter what the budget is, if you’re passionate about receiving market share, and dialing up your presence digitally, you can do just that with the help of Instacart.

DeRobbio went on to share a few examples of how Tinuiti is working with Wild Planet to achieve success on Instacart through retargeting opportunities and the success they’ve already seen. For example, Wild Planet retargeting display has driven an increase of +54% new to brand sales. 

 

 

“If you think about what it takes to be able to get on the shelf at the store, and then you times that by over 1,100 retailers – Instacart is truly a productivity enabler.” 

—  Max Rudy, Director of E-commerce from Wild Planet Foods

 

 

Rudy acknowledged how Wild Planet is asking potential customers to take the plunge on their product considering it’s $3-4 more than a regular can of tuna. They highlighted how it’s so important to show real product imagery, content, and solid brand messaging through Instacart’s suite of tools so consumers can be confident in the purchase they are making.

To wrap up the session, Marsten, moved the conversation into the future and asked DeRobbio what should brands do and how should they think about Instacart in 2023 and 2024? He went on to share a few tools brands should consider using moving forward including:

 

• Brand pages are completely free dedicated landing pages that advertisers can create on Instacart. They empower CPG industry partners to effectively guide consumers, both within and beyond the Instacart platform, towards a thoughtfully curated and easily navigable destination. Brand pages serve as a convenient shopping hub, allowing consumers to delve into an extensive product portfolio and explore a wide range of offerings.

 

• Shoppable display ads blend personalized messaging, powerful imagery, and “add-to-cart” functionality to drive consideration and bigger baskets. With Shoppable Display, available via Self Service in Ads Manager, brands can easily deliver a more engaging shopping experience.

 

• Shoppable video encapsulates all the features of Shoppable Display with an added video component. Shoppable Video gives brands the opportunity to capture a user’s attention with auto-play videos that engage shoppers on a new level. These in-line ads, targetable by behavior or keywords, allow brands to tell their story, share their products, and captivate consumers through the added use of motion and sound.

 

DeRobbio also mentioned that Instacart will continue to innovate in more upper-funnel opportunities including releasing a video display API. He also teased new AI features that will help shoppers easily add items from a recipe to their Instacart shopping cart. We’ll keep you posted as Instacart releases more information on these exciting AI features.

“It’s so exciting as the different tool sets come out, there’s always a different opportunity. As a brand you just have to have your story straight and know what you want to accomplish at that point in the funnel.”

—  Max Rudy, Director of E-commerce from Wild Planet Foods

 

Ready to think bigger about your brand’s strategy on Instacart? Contact us today to get started on the platform and make sure to check out this session (and additional Tinuiti Live sessions) on-demand.